Judy Garland is still one of those names that any film fan knows, even if they’re not completely aware of much else outside of The Wizard of Oz. Her career loomed so large that it’s become one audiences have been enthralled with for decades.
But you don’t often hear about the people around her. One such person is Rosalyn Wilder, who looked after Garland after her time in London. In the film, Judy, Wilder is portrayed by Jessie Buckley, who I had a chance to sit down with to discuss her role in the movie.
Judy hits theaters this weekend!
Nancy Tapia: It’s very nice to speak with you. I got a chance to speak to you, over the phone, for Wild Rose this year.
Buckley: Cool.
Nancy Tapia: So I really loved that performance, I think I told you that several times when we spoke. It’s a privilege to get to interview the same person twice within a year, months in this case.
Jesse Buckley: Are you sick of me yet? (laughs)
Nancy Tapia: Of course not! That’s why I’m here in-person, finally! Which project came in first? Was it Judy or was it Wild Rose?
Jesse Buckley: It was Wild Rose, yeah. I’d just finished Wild Rose, and then I started shooting this.
Nancy Tapia: And how did you get involved with Judy?
Jess Buckley: I just auditioned, and went in and met director Rupert [Goold], and we read, and then he called up and said, “Would you like to do it?” That was it.
Nancy Tapia: How familiar were you to Judy Garland’s life story?
Jesse Buckley: Oh, I am a long term Judy fan. We didn’t have a TV for a while when we were growing up, and then one Christmas Dad brought home a load of Vincente Minnelli films, and that was like my first experience of film. And seeing Judy Garland in the middle of that, just kind of giving her heart to me. Yeah, and she’s been consistently in my life since then, and I love her.
Nancy Tapia: So was it her music before Wizard of Oz? Because Wizard of Oz had an effect on everyone’s childhood.
Buckley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think… well, both go hand in hand, don’t they? That she’s not just not a singer, she’s an actress and a storyteller, and hilarious. Her shows were amazing. I used to just watch her shows on YouTube kind of for hours on end.
Nancy Tapia: So what was your first-time expression or feel watching Wizard of Oz? Do you remember?
Jesse Buckley: I mean, I thought it was just like magic. I mean it is kind of, it’s a magical film, and I remember as a kid, it was just like that color, you know? And it’s like a fable. It’s like an old fable with these characters, like the Scarecrow, and the Tin Man, and the Witch and the lollipop kids, and Judy and Toto, and…
Nancy Tapia: It’s impressing high marks, right?
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, and the feeling of it. Like somebody asked me last night, “Somewhere Over The Rainbow,” it’s an incredible song that is actually quite sad at the core of it, even though it’s a song about hope and about somebody who wants something beyond where they are in that moment, and you feel like they might get it, but you don’t quite know. And even in the whole song, there’s a sad Judy pain that she had of actually the kind of fragility of human hope.
Nancy Tapia: And in the film, when that song was sang, oh my goodness, the goosebumps and everyone’s teary-eyed like you wouldn’t expect it. How was that scene while filming and you being present to watch? I mean, watching onscreen, it hits you. So in-person, I can imagine the more touching experience?
Jesse Buckley: Renée [Zellwegger] was just incredible. We’d shot kind of consistently over two days in Hackney Empire, which was replacing The Talk of the Town building. And effortlessly, she’d go from plonking herself down and chatting to the extras for like half an hour, to sitting and giving that performance that she gave singing “Somewhere Over The Rainbow.” And I mean the extras were crying, because they had got to know Judy via Renée, and then this woman was just like there with them.
And I remember Michael Gambon, who is in it with me, and I was standing beside him, and genuinely, he turned around to me and he held my hand and he had just tears streaming down his face. And he said, “Who’s that girl?” He’s like, “She’s incredibly special”.
And I didn’t know if he was like still in the scene or like himself. And there was a really amazing feeling on set of almost like a reverence and a respect to Judy. It felt like giving something back to the woman who had a precious gift taken for granted and taken away from.
Nancy Tapia: Yeah. That was quite emotional. We’re talking about it, my eyes are getting watery. What’s another scene that you really enjoyed filming with?
Jesse Buckley: Oh, we had such a great time on this job. I was saying to Renée last night, it was like being in a kind of hog cave, you know, where we just… it was such a small film. Like it wasn’t a big hoo-ha job or a big studio job, and it felt like it was just ours when we were making it. And everyday coming to set, was a joy. We were doing a story about an amazing woman, and everybody just wanted to sing who this woman really was at her core out, to tell this story properly. Really grateful, like doing the scene where we set the fireworks off in the church.
Nancy Tapia That was cool. Why did it happen inside? That’s the part I didn’t understand, and not outdoors. Was it like a city regulation that prohibited them?
Buckley: No, no, no. I think that was also part of the fun, was that we did something that you’re probably not allowed to do, but only Judy Garland got to do.
Nancy Tapia: Right. Okay, yeah. That was nice.
Jesse Buckley: And then doing the scene, getting Judy ready, when she first gets drunk and I come traipsing into her room and have to be like a magician and get her dressed and give her tea without her even knowing what she’s doing, and just get her… that was quite fun, and also quite scary because I was like, “Oh my God, I’ve got so many props that I need to do, and in a certain amount of time, and in one take.”
Nancy Tapia: So for those that are going to be watching the movie, can you tell them about your role in the film?
Jesse Buckley: So I play a woman called Rosalyn Wilder, who was Judy’s kind of right-hand woman when she came to The Talk of the Town, and she was a young assistant to Bernard Delfont, who was the main producer of The Talk of the Town. And when you first meet her, she’s quite a brusque, efficient, emotionally reserved woman who is very practical about what she needs to do. And throughout the course of the film, she observes Judy and the humanity of who this legend is, and in a way, her armor of emotion is cracked by Judy, and they kind of have a companionship of sorts, of care for each other.
Nancy Tapia: I was hoping for that to happen. At first, it’s like you’re not sure. Like, “Oh, she’s just business”.
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, yeah, yeah, she’s terrifying.
Nancy Tapia: Yeah, kind of intimidating. I learned about your from Wild Rose. Including the fact that you sing also. Or was it just for Wild Rose?
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, no, I sing around the place. Well, I grew up in Ireland, and I come from a big family of five. And I moved to London when I was 17, and did lots of theater for quite a while, and then went back to RADA and studied. And yeah, I kind of have no plan. Blindly walking with passion towards something that I hope my…
Nancy Tapia: Oh, a little bit like what? Rose-Lynn from Wild Rose, kind of just going?
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, without going to prison and having two kids.
Nancy Tapia Yeah, besides that. But you know, has that direction. At least you know what you want and know where you’re going, in a way.
Jesse Buckley: I don’t really… I never ever expected I’d be doing what I’m doing now, because being part of movies just wasn’t something that happened from where I’m from. My mom’s a harpist and a singer, and I suppose growing up around music was something that, in my peripheral, I actually thought I’d be more involved with that and maybe more involved in musical theater or doing plays or whatever. But never in a million years did I ever think I’d make a movie.
So I’m kind of led with my gut, and what I feel excited about, and what unnerves me, and what I feel I don’t know about myself yet. And I love people, and I love the different qualities of every single person, and I like to choose things that are as far away from where I’ve just come, just so that I can learn a little bit more about myself and look at the world in a different way through somebody else’s eyes.
So yeah, no plan really.
Nancy Tapia: Well, you’re going to get a long ways if you like putting yourself out of the comfort zone.
Jesse Buckley: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nancy Tapia: So what would you say is the difference in your enjoyment from theater to film?
Jesse Buckley: I mean, they’re kind of… the process is the same. Like for me, it has to come down to the character and the story.
I suppose the main difference and the exciting thing about whether I’m doing a gig or when you do a theater play, is that immediate relationship with an audience. Like I’ve been doing a few singing gigs over the summer, and having the challenge to speak to people right there and then in a moment. I love that.
I think it’s a different challenge also to be able to find a way to do that on film, and ultimately, it’s the same thing, because if you’re honest, that will last. If you are brave enough to just be honest and not perform or appeal to something, it’ll connect, I think, in some way.
I don’t know.
Nancy Tapia: If I’m not mistaken, in Europe, it seems like more people start in theater, right?
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Nancy Tapia: And then you move on to film, versus to here. Where you start with the small television gigs maybe, not so much theater.
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, no, definitely. But I think that it’s definitely more, I think, lots of casting agents go and see plays and stuff like that. And there’s definitely, I think compared to… maybe New York, it’s pretty similar where there’s a big theater community.
There’s a huge theater community. And even for me, my first job out of RADA was doing Shakespeare in the Globe. And as a young actress, it’s an amazing opportunity to watch in the wings, and watch people who have been doing it for a long time, and learn like that.
And I remember maybe one of my second or third jobs was with Judy Dench in a film, and I would just sit every single night in the wings and I would just watch every single night and try and go, “How is she doing that? How is she doing that?”
Nancy Tapia: That’s great. So anything you can share that you might be working on or maybe coming up?
Jesse Buckley: I finished a film just before summer, a Charlie Kaufman film that will be coming out, I don’t know, maybe next year some time. And then I’m about to go and shoot Fargo in three weeks.
Nancy Tapia: Oh, that’s exciting.
Jesse Buckley: I have a little plan.
Nancy Tapia: And any theater after or in between?
Jesse Buckley: Yeah, I hope so. I’d love to… maybe next year, I’ll do a play back in London. Or wherever will have me.
Judy is out in theaters this weekend!
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