Welcome to Breaking Geek, a column where uber-geek Nick Doll offers commentary and reactions to the most interesting news of the week (or whatever else he wants), using his expansive knowledge of all things geek! This issue is our second “Breaking Geek Discussion” with input from LRM’s Editor-in-Chief, and my friend, Joseph Jammer Medina, as well as LRM’s man from across the pond, Cam Clark. 

Today we revisit Avengers: Infinity War after its recent home video release. Jammer and I spoke back on April 27th, the theatrical release date of Infinity War, about how our opinions may change with time and more context. Though Jammer really wanted to wait until Avengers 4 to judge Infinity War fully, as it will complete the narrative with a proper ending, I think we’ve had enough time and viewings to finally process that meaty film, sans the sequel or Captain Marvel.

Bringing into account the months that have passed since the theatrical release, the added information from Ant-Man and the Wasp which is still in theaters, and even details we’ve learned from special features and interviews, it is now time to see if any of the gang here at LRM had any new, pressing thoughts. I’ll start us off…

Nick Doll (me!): Hi, my name is Nick and I’m an Avengers: Infinity War addict. It has been two days since my last viewing of Infinity War. I dare not count how many times it has been overall, since the digital release alone.

The main thing I notice now, months later, is that Infinity War really is a fantastic, game-changing, entertaining, helluva film! The most epic film ever created in a computer; an event film the size of which we’ve never seen. Now, I noticed that back in April, but the fact that I still feel that way means I wasn’t just having a knee-jerk reaction to it being new. Often times, I can give a more realistic reaction to a film once the initial release excitement is over, the more time has passed, and the more I’ve seen it.  

I will say, it is even more emotional than I remember, and that isn’t just due to poor ole’ Spidey, but Thanos himself. His digital tears give me real ones. Jammer, you’ve accepted Thanos as the protagonist since you were doubtful on Los Fanboys on April 27th, right?

Joseph Jammer Medina (Editor-In-Chief): Yeah, I have to say, it took a bit of convincing on my part. Watching the film that first time through (and even the second time), it was hard for me not to see the actual struggle from the perspective of the Avengers. In my eyes, this was a film with four separate narratives (Stark, Guardians, Thor, and Banner), each with separate story arcs that lead them against Thanos — basically, four three-act structures. It worked for me on that level, even though I found the lack of overall depth and arcs to be working against the film.

When all said and done, I gave the movie a B- when I reviewed it largely because of this. However, in the months since then, after rewatching it a few more times (by the way, the movie is surprisingly rewatchable), I’ve come on board Team Thanos here. The story is truly structured around his struggle, even if we don’t altogether empathize with him or want him to succeed. Initially, I thought that perhaps the filmmakers were just paying lip service — trying to push him as sympathetic to us lowly pressers to regurgitate to audiences — but it’s become clear that they really did make the movie revolve around him. Does it change my grade? I think I’d perhaps give it something closer to a B. Ultimately, I think there is a ceiling to how much I can truly love a film that juggles as many characters as it does. It’s inevitable that I’d feel a little unfulfilled in that department — and I think the movie does as good a job as it possibly can, given its restrictions.

Nick: You’d think I’d hate it for that reason, because I’m Cap’s biggest fan! And he really isn’t in too much of this film, considering he is otherwise given the most screentime in Avengers films. But, I still really don’t notice when I’m enthralled with the film. I am grateful he wasn’t saved until Wakanda though, as we recently learned was almost the case.

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Cam (Writer of the Month at LRM!): I’m surprised you wouldn’t go beyond the B, Jammer, but I understand your reasons. I guess for me this movie just ticks all the geek boxes. I think it doesn’t pander to an audience not caught up with the MCU and is a rollercoaster because of it.

It just starts with a bang and carries on from there. However, I think after several viewings now there are a few narrative points that kinda bug me. I think the running joke of Hulk not coming out starts to wear a little thin towards the end of the movie. I get they wanted the audience to believe Hulk would bust out eventually and I get that it allowed Thor to have his big entrance in Wakanda (my favorite part of the movie). It makes it slightly less rewatchable in my opinion. And yet, I agree with Jammer that it’s an easy movie to rewatch because the good so often outweighs the bad.

For me, it’s like a cross between Avengers 2012 and Empire Strikes Back. It has those spine-tingling moments throughout but ultimately had quite a dark theme where the heroes have to accept they lost…. Until the next one anyway. Out of all the MCU movies, Infinity War is the one I’d be most likely to just watch again one night when bored. 

Jammer: I find it interesting that you thought the Hulk thing was a running joke. I didn’t see it as a running joke as much as a character arc to be had. Banner was trapped for years as Hulk and was only brought out as a tool in Thor: Ragnarok. I saw it as Hulk rebelling against Banner, not wanting to be brought out just to solve a problem. He’s a sympathetic being too, and since the beginning, Banner hasn’t genuinely accepted Hulk as being a part of him. That will be his big arc in the next film, which would be really groundbreaking, as the character has never gone that far in a film before!

And in regards to “pandering” to an audience not caught up, I’m not sure I see it was the same way. I didn’t see its shortcomings as them not giving us enough backstory about the characters, but rather not giving many characters very real arcs. Other than “I need to go up against Thanos,” there were few rewarding arcs in the film (Thor and Thanos, I think, are the only ones with real arcs, and even Thor’s isn’t super strong, outside of him getting a baller-ass axe). Granted, there was foundation-setting for arcs in the next film, but that just supports the idea that this was always part one of two.

 Cam: it depends which way you look at the MCU. I see character arcs running through the entire series and that Infinity War was an important step in those arcs.

Thor literally finishes Ragnarok and goes straight into IW. His brother has finally done some good and seemingly accepted Thor as his new King. He has lost his home, his father and had to kill his sister. Then at the start of IW he has half of his people wiped out, his loyal friend and brother killed and is left pretty helpless. His anger and thirst for revenge fuel him in this movie and yet that ultimately costs him a price too high to pay.

I concede that Banner’s arc is spread out between the same three movies as Thor’s but without seeing part 4 I genuinely don’t know if it will work. Either way, they go back to this attempt to bring out the hulk for me perhaps one too many times in the end. Whenever Banner is fighting in the Hulkbuster suit I’m basically waiting for it to cut to someone more exciting.

I think in hindsight given his lack of skill in the suit he should have stayed on Vision watch. Might it all work out great over the course of both movies? I can’t say for sure, it’s not something that annoys me, I guess it’s about the only critical point I have in the movie. I guess I just didn’t like Banner’s scenes in the finale?

Jammer: Oh, I like the way you phrased the Thor arc. Okay, I think I changed my mind on his arc. Sure, it’s shallow, but it is there, in that his quest for vengeance led to the destruction of half the universe. I can see that really leading to a necessary emotional change. My rating stays, though! As I said, it’s a solid, fun movie that works amazingly as a piece in the MCU, but doesn’t completely have all the pieces I personally look for in a film. That may change if Avengers 4 comes out and ends things perfectly, essentially working as a second half of a complete narrative, and I reserve the right to change my mind when that movie comes out. But, of course, that’s my personal perspective, and I get why someone like Nick is completely overjoyed by what we’ve been given.

Cam: Someone like Nick? I thought we were trying to inclusive of Nick these days? Ha!

Nick: Hey, I’m the first to admit I’m easy. I started a journey a nearly a decade ago to be less cynical, and now, more than ever before, I enjoy most movies more than… well… most. Still, if Avengers 4 were to be bad, it would crush my spirit. Because I am invested. And next time, Captain America needs his screen time! Now, if you will excuse me, I have to go watch Avengers: Infinity War again.

Thank you, Jammer and Cam, for doing most the work for this issue of Breaking Geek for me. Good talk.

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