– by David Kozlowski

Rian Johnson’s Star Wars: The Last Jedi (TLJ) is proving to be as controversial as it is successful since debuting in theaters last week.

One of the major bones of contention has been the amped-up use of the Force, which can now apparently connect Force-sensitive folks across the galaxy, or project one’s self astrally across vast distances, and even protect against the vacuum of space — notably, the Force depictions in TLJ are dramatically super-sized from previous saga iterations.

[Warning: Spoilers Ahead]

Naturally, not everyone is down with these Force changes, as evidenced by the raging backlash in the Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic user reviews. In the original trilogy Jedi and Sith characters had limited command of the Force; they could push, pull, jump, choke, or mind-control other characters within a certain range (and a few could sense major galactic disturbances, like the destruction of a planet) — it’s this last ability that Johnson seized upon as a jumping-off point in TLJ.

Related – The Great Star Wars Debate: Does The Last Jedi Actually Stink?

Johnson spoke with the LA Times to explain how he obtained authorization for the Force upgrades seen in TLJ:

“There is a man named Pablo Hidalgo who is the sweetest dude in the universe, and he’s one of several keepers of the flame at Lucasfilm. It would always be a conversation, and if the story required it and if it felt like it stretches into new territory but doesn’t break the idea of what the Force can do, Pablo was down — I got the blessing. “

I worked at Lucasfilm several years ago in their video game division (the now-defunct LucasArts). We regularly interacted with the licensing folks, a small cadre of key decision-makers at Lucasfilm who decide what is canon and what is not. Hidalgo is one of those licensing folks, and they maintain a database called the Holocron, which is effectively the Star Wars bible, listing every item, character, event, and location from every movie, show, game, book, comic, etc. When you have a crazy idea for something, you negotiate with these folks. So, the Star Wars canon is a living thing, constantly being tweaked.

Johnson accepts that many fans are taking issue with his Force choices in TLJ, which were driven by his script:

“With the Force connections between Rey and Kylo I thought, ‘OK, I need to get these two talking. But if I put them face to face they’re going to either fight, or one of them has to be tied up.’ I knew I wanted them to talk, and to talk enough to where we could go from ‘I hate you,’ to her being forced to actually engage with him. That’s where the idea of these ‘Force connections’ came from, which is kind of a new thing. It’s a little bit of a riff on what happens with Vader and Luke at the end of The Empire Strikes Back, but it’s entirely new in some regards.”

My problem with this explanation is that Johnson came to these decisions because the script demanded it, not because it was necessarily what the characters wanted or needed — a problem that pervades TLJ.

Johnson goes on to explain that the Force has evolved, to lesser or greater extent, in every Star Wars movie:

“The truth is, because Star Wars until The Force Awakens has been set in amber and we hadn’t had a new Star Wars movie in 10 years, you forget that they were introducing new Force stuff with each movie, based on the requirements of the story. Force-grabbing didn’t come around until Empire, it wasn’t in A New Hope. Same with Force ghosts. They’d introduce new ideas of what could happen with the Force each time.”

OK, he’s got a point here. But let’s move to the three biggest issues with the Force in TLJ: Leia’s Force floating, Yoda’s Force lightning from beyond the grave, and Luke’s astral projecting — each of these has been dissected and debated online non-stop since last week. Johnson addresses Luke’s long-distance fighting style:

“When Luke shows up [on the planet Crait] he’s projecting, it’s like a hardcore variation of what Kylo and Rey have been doing the whole time and that’s why it takes so much out of him. In the version that we play, no. We tried to play really, really fair. In terms of his footsteps — we removed all of his foley — there are no footstep sounds. They never touch. And if you look, the salt flakes that are falling are sparking off of Kylo’s saber and not off of Luke’s.”

It’s a clever moment, to be sure, but when you stop to think about it for a moment, it feels like a cheap solution. Shortly thereafter Luke literally disappears in a cloud of dust, which robs our characters of more time and interaction with Luke in the future (although, he’s probably a Force ghost in Episode IX).

The major problem I have with Luke’s astral stuff, the fact that Rey and Kylo could physically interact while mentally connected, Yoda’s weather tricks, and Leia’s strange moment are all of the plot holes this creates. Can a Jedi assassinate someone while in astral form? Are Jedis indestructible, aside from lightsaber strikes? Why didn’t all of the Force ghosts team-up and smack-down Snoke and Kylo? We’ll probably never know the answers to these questions, possibly because Johnson never considered them.

At the end of the day, TLJ is just a movie, it’s not going to change the world one way or the other. However, we fans take our franchises seriously, and when someone starts mucking around with the way things work, because that’s what the story needs to have happen, it risks alienating long-term fans, who are left feeling like Johnson, Kennedy, Abrams, and the other key creators are just making this stuff up as they go along, fair or not.

Where do you stand regarding the use of the Force in TLJ? Let us know in the comments down below!

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  • Ian Finnimore

    Leland Chee was always the go to guy wasn’t he?

    • It’s been awhile, but yes, I think Leland was one of the small (but powerful) licensing team. They were all super nice folks.

  • RadicalAgnostic

    “OK, I need to get these two talking. But if I put them face to face
    they’re going to either fight, or one of them has to be tied up.”

    Well, well… i suppose Reylo *IS* a thing.

    • Ian Finnimore

      Bad writing – the Emperor & Vader spoke via hologram.

      Nope lets just make something up again ..

      • Rad4Cap

        Having them force skype is not bad writing. That some have a connection doesn’t mean ALL have a connection. Snoke and Kylo also spoke via hologram. It doesn’t mean they couldn’t do something else if they needed or wanted. People text, email, fax, skype, call, etc etc. There is not only one way to do something. And not everyone has to be able to do them all.

        I do not like the new film at ALL. It is indeed FILLED with bad writing. But this was not an example of it.

        • Ian Finnimore

          He’s saying force skype is the ONLY way other than face to face or tying them up which it is not.

          He writes himself out of his problems by inventing force solutions.

          IF you have read his various explanations about his decisions they have all essentially said that he didn’t want to adjust his script so _ _ _ _ is his solution.

          “Because the force” as an answer is bad writing.

          I don’t mind force communication – it’s been shown in one form or another anyway but his explanation for implementing a more extreme version of it is .. lacking ..

          • Rad4Cap

            So you don’t mind its use or existence, but claim that it is somehow bad anyway.

            THAT isn’t a complaint about writing, bad or otherwise. That is simply you LOOKING for something to complain about.

            BIG difference.

            As I stated, there are COUNTLESS examples of ACTUAL bad writing. One doesn’t need to manufacture them from things which aren’t even personal pet peeve contradictions of prior ‘canon’.

            The “force connection” was a good solution for something he wanted to achieve. That you can supposedly think of OTHER ways of achieving it (though you pointedly do NOT mention them), doesn’t make THIS way ‘bad’. In fact, you’ve in NO way identified WHY this is ‘bad writing’ – except to say ‘He wanted to do something and so used the force to achieve it. That is bad.’ No – it isn’t.

            Simply pointing at something and saying ‘Baaaaaadddd’ doesn’t make it so.

          • Madara7

            I’d hate to agree with Rad, but he has a point here once you get past all the brow-beating intensity.

            It’s true Rian leveraged the Force to address certain challenges, I just don’t find fault with it because it seems like quite an elegant solution.

            Yoda explained the Force connects and binds all things. That pretty effectively sets the stage for it to function as a metaphysical comm network in my book.

            Force ghosts hone in on, materialize, and communicate with the living they knew no matter where they are. The living have also made contact over vast distances, as already discussed. It’s just a neat extrapolation of what’s come before.

            If he had Luke physically shapeshift into an Xwing and fly through space to arrive at Crait(sp), that’d be a colossal glittering jewel of bad writing, though admittedly there’s no subtlety to that example, we’d all be in agreement about it (I think).

            But HEY, I’m NOT going to BASH you over the HEAD for having a different TAKE ;).

  • Kindofabigdeal

    I don’t remember any director having to go online to defend his movie so much.

    • Mad Barchetta

      These are dark times we live in.

      • Games

        How will we survive!

    • HaroldNMaudeDib

      Abrams had to go on to but more to explain shit he couldn’t fit in.

    • SnokeYou

      Yep. The sheer volume of stories defending this guys dumb decisions for this flick is telling.

      This reflects really poor on Kennedy who had final say so on the script before it was approved by The Mouse.

    • I thought we all liked talking about this stuff. We don’t? What should we talk about instead?

  • HaroldNMaudeDib

    If I remember correctly didn’t Abrams say the increased force powers and even the title itself, The Force Awakens, spoke to some sort of newly reborn and more powerful Force? “Can you feel it? There has been an awakening?” I assumed that this would explain how Ren and Ray can do all this shit and so well and so soon and that we would find this all out in this film.

    Seems Rian Johnson just ignored all this. And Kathleen Kennedy and Lucasfilm Story Group didn’t give a shit or were just to dumb to notice.

    • Rad4Cap

      The Awakening and the balancing are referenced by Snoke in the new movie. It is Rey awakening to the force and becoming a balance to Kylo. Snoke had thought Kylo’s rise would awaken Luke, but it was not him – it was something new.

  • Moby85

    Am I the only one curious to what LucasArts games David worked on?

    • Star Wars Battlefront III and IV by the team responsible for 007 Goldeneye! Sadly, both projects were cancelled when The Force Unleashed ran late, and then everyone got laid off. Good times.

      • Moby85

        Thanks for sharing. Hey, at least your journey led to us talking movies here!

      • Wasn’t Goldeneye made by Rage in the UK

  • Mad Barchetta

    As usual, in some ways I agree and in others I don’t, or at least I’m not so sure.

    Looking back at TESB, as Yoda argued with Obi-wan’s voice about Luke’s readiness, he says, “This one a long time have I watched. All his life has he looked away… to the future, to the horizon.” Watched? From Dagobah? And, Luke was able to see his friends being tortured light years away in Bespin. So, this would indicate that it is within the abilities of Jedi to see afar. Doesn’t seem that much of a stretch to think that two minds could connect and communicate in this way, given the right circumstances. And Snoke actually says that the helped Ren and Rey connect. The idea that they seemed to touch…I’m not sure if that was meant to be literal in the physical sense or not. Really hard to accept the idea that they truly bent space in such a way. I think it was more of an astral touch that Luke could perceive, being a powerful Force user himself.

    In the context of Yoda’s use of lightning, I can think of no precedent to justify it, really. However, the concept of the Force ghost creates possibilities. How Force ghosts are created is unclear. Initially, I took it as something that happens naturally when powerfully Force-connected individuals pass. In RotS, Yoda indicates to Obi-wan that it is a technique discovered by Qui-gon (and that dude’s Force ghost never shows up ANYWHERE!), which suggests that’s how Obi-wan learned it. So, as ‘luminous beings” it could be conceivable that these “ghosts” could actually continue to increase their abilities in the Force. They are certainly aware and capable of learning. Does this “death” actually preclude them from using Force abilities? Maybe not. BUT…that does indeed raise the question of why they don’t take a more active role in the material world, given they seem so invested. Then again, perhaps they are beyond the care of this mortal coil and only occasionally intervene with guidance, some of that guidance occasionally having a more direct impact on the world.

    Finally, it’s always possible that the self-projection technique used by Luke is nothing new to the Jedi, but something over very powerful Jedi attempt and the kind of trick one can only accomplish once, as it requires so much energy that is usually stresses the physical body to the point of death.

    Just some thoughts. I would actually be a bit surprised if Rian put this much thought into these plot points, but he does seem a bit of a deep thinker to me, so maybe he will surprise me.

    • Madara7

      “In RotS, Yoda indicates to Obi-wan that it is a technique discovered by Qui-gon (and that dude’s Force ghost never shows up ANYWHERE!)”

      In RotS, or at least in a fan edit I watched, Qui-gon communicates to Yoda prior to his scene with Obi-wan, tells him ‘Yoda, my old friend, come to Dagobah, you must complete what I could not’. It may have been spliced in from the Clone Wars series, where I know for a fact he communed with Qui-gon, who could only manifest as a voice and some sparkling lights but no image of his original form.

      Come to think of it, while that may explain how Obi-wan, Yoda, and probably Luke could manifest as ghosts… technically Anakin shouldn’t have been able to as he did at the end of RotJ. Guess that may be one of the perks of being conceived by the force.

  • Mike

    When Johnson says he had to get rey and kylo talking, he IS talking about what the characters wanted/needed…you might not agree with the choice, but obviously a big part of the story Johnson wanted to tell was about Rey and Kylo and their connection…that’s not forcing something for the script, it’s doing it for exactly the reason you wish he was doing it

    Also didn’t Vader force choke through a hologram once? Between that, luke sensing his friends on bespin, and yoda watching luke, there’s plenty of precedent for long distance force use

    • Cuban9222

      Vader Force- choked an officer through a viewing monitor in Empire, or was it in Return of the Jedi?

  • Madara7

    Interesting point about whether force ghosts could go around using weather manipulation as a weapon. I’d say no, simply because they’ve never been shown to manifest beyond those who are force sensitive and had a connection to them in life. Something has to be said for being at the location of the first Jedi temple, it stands to reason there’s a focal point or fount of Force energy there. This may allow entities like a Force ghost to do a little more than the norm in that particular place.

    • You make some good points. I didn’t consider the significance of the Jedi temple when Yoda brought the thunder. Thanks!

    • Games

      So if you have not seen something, it must mean it can not be done? So no one can learn to do something new? That would make these stories pretty boring if they have nothing new ever again.

      • Madara7

        So we can never make logical inferences based on limited information using reason?

        For example, is it possible Leia could have seen all the force ghosts at the end of rotj? That she merely failed to pop her eyes up as she pulled Luke back into the festivities as he clearly looks at them? It’s possible, but unlikely.

        It’s possible Yoda could whip up a thunderstorm right above Kylos bed and fry him from anywhere… But does that seem likely? I just don’t think so.

        • Rad4Cap

          When talking about ‘magics’, “likely” and “unlikely” don’t enter into it.

          • Madara7

            Yes it does, if every fantastical element like magic in every piece of fiction exists independent of any logic or reason, which directly determines likelihood and plausibility in its respective context, story telling of that type becomes impossible.

            Note, the movie has serious issues, there’s plenty I don’t like. This isn’t one of them in my book.

          • Rad4Cap

            This isn’t one of the problems for me either. I’m just pointing out that when one is talking about magic, by definition, it can be whatever the author wants it to be. By definition it is not constrained by reality – and as such “likely” and “unlikely” have nothing to do with it – have nothing to do with what is and is not “possible”.

            If the author decrees the Force could be used to destroy the entire universe, then it can be used to destroy the entire universe. It can be anything – or nothing at all.

            By definition, magic is arbitrary.

          • Madara7

            Magic, like every fantastical abstract concept, is only as ‘arbitrary’ as the author makes it.

            If you showcase a universe in which everybody can telekinetically pull objects, and you build the story up for 40 years around that concept, then drop a story in which a character turns a rock into cotton candy and offer no in-continuity explanation for it, or offer a poor one… You’ve left your audience without a frame of reference and shattered their suspension of disbelief, you’ve violated your own set of established parameters.

            What you’ve created is not consistent with what’s come before, the unlikely or impossible has transpired and to hell with logic of any sort. If your point is that an author >can< do that easily with 'magic', um, ok… It doesn't mean they should, at least not if their intent is to write a good story.

          • Rad4Cap

            “drop a story in which a character turns a rock into cotton candy”
            “What you’ve created is not consistent with what’s come before”

            First – Transmogrification is not ‘inconsistent’ with telekenesis. Second – there is NOTHING about magic that requires non-contradiction. As already pointed out, magic – by definition – is the OPPOSITE of reason and reality.

            You want logic from the illogical – reason from the irrational. And when you (supposedly) don’t get it, you claim that magic is not being scientific. LOL

            As you yourself state, you don’t have a problem with ANY magic – even what you claim is “inconsistent” so long as there is an “explanation” for it. Fine. They’ve tapped into ‘deeper’ magic.

            Satisfied? LOL

          • Madara7

            “First – Transmogrification is not ‘inconsistent’ with telekenesis.”
            Yes it is, absent proper writing.

            “Second – there is NOTHING about magic that requires non-contradiction.”
            Yes there is, already illustrated the point.

            You keep separating the concept into this bubble that’s totally divorced from its use as a tool to tell an entertaining, well thought out story. No one is talking about carrying out a lab experiment with the concept for fucks sake.

            By your definition, a story involving magic can never be judged against any standard, or at least the magic ‘system’ there-in. All magic conceptual structures, irrespective of how they serve the story, from Harry Potter to Starwars, are qualitatively the same because hey its all arbitrary anyway.

            We’ll agree to disagree, ‘lol’.

          • Rad4Cap

            “Yes it is”

            ‘Nu uh’ ain’t an argument. All you’re doing is magically – not rationally – declaring they are “inconsistent”. You prove my point. 🙂

            Transmogrification is not inconsistent with telekenisis is not inconsistent with astral projection is not inconsistent with magical lightning is not inconsistent with…ad nauseum.

            The ONLY thing they are ALL inconsistent with is science – ie reality. And that is WHAT makes them ALL perfectly consistent with each other.

            “a story involving magic can never be judged against any standard”

            That’s correct. Because magic is whatever the author declares. There is NO standard to which it must adhere. ANY arbitrarily created rule about it can just as arbitrarily be changed or discarded with NO MORE the wave of a magic wand. ‘I just tapped into deeper magic Luke, Harry, Gandalf, etc etc’ is the ONLY “proper writing” necessary.

            There is NO basis in reality for magic, so there is no basis in reality for demanding its standard NOT arbitrarily change.

            You DEMAND magic BE science. It ain’t.

          • Madara7

            “”Yes it is”

            ‘Nu uh’ ain’t an argument”

            I’m matching the substance of your argument, from my perspective. I’ve already provided all the necessary substantiation of my points. You don’t agree with them, I don’t agree with yours.

            “There is NO basis in reality for magic, so there is no basis in reality for demanding its standard NOT arbitrarily change.

            You DEMAND magic BE science. It ain’t.”

            There it is again, discussing a concept in a way that is completely isolated from its proper context, it’s use in writing stories. Stories follow logic, they must for most people to enjoy them, whenever they don’t people are less likely to do so. If you employ the concept of magic such that it breaks the logic of your story, tada.

            If you come up with a magic system in your head to cure cancer, then yes, you’ll be sorely disappointed in the results.

          • Rad4Cap

            “”Yes it is”

            ‘Nu uh’ ain’t an argument”
            “I’ve already provided all the necessary substantiation of my points”

            ie NONE at all. As noted, you have presented NO argument as to how telekinesis and transmogrification are “inconsistent”. You have simply arbitrarily declared them to be. It is your arbitrary declaration that making cotton candy from rocks with one’s mind is SOMEHOW inconsistent with moving rocks with your mind. HOW? You declare you do NOT have to say. You declare the declaration alone is all that matters.

            To summarize, all you’ve got is an ARBITRARY declaration. NOTHING more. NOT logic – NOT reason.

            You just PROVED my point in TOTAL. Thanks 🙂

            “Stories follow logic”

            Waving a wand is not “logic”. Declaring “I tapped into a greater magic” is not logic. Magic is NOT logic.

            That you believe otherwise certainly explains much about your demands about “using reason”.

          • Madara7

            The declaration alone is not the substance, it’s the statement I already made that illustrates the point.

            You write a story for 40 years, building >your own in universe logic around a magic system<, then write something completely different in its physical manifestation without explanation. That's bad writing, I'm not sure how else to explain that.

            Tell you what…

            Damn Rad you're so right, you got me, I've seen the light.

            I'd love to do this all day, but I can't.

          • Rad4Cap

            “building >your own in universe logic around a magic system< then write something completely different in"

            I repeat: waving a wand is not "logic". Declaring "I tapped into a greater magic" is not logic. Magic is NOT logic.

            That you believe otherwise certainly explains much about your demands about "using reason".

          • Madara7

            Yep, as you keep implying, my faculty for reason is completely compromised, owned, as the kids might say.

          • Rad4Cap

            “my faculty for reason is completely compromised”

            No. Just your definition of it.

          • Madara7

            Oh ok, half-owned.

          • Rad4Cap

            “Compromised” was the correct term. It’s to do with your failure to recognize facts of reality. It has nothing to do with others.

          • Madara7

            Right, right, facts. Reality. Failure. Got it.

          • Rad4Cap

            “Right, right, facts. Reality. Failure. Got it.”

            THIS is what Madara considers to be “using reason”.

            I rest my case.

          • Madara7

            I rested it for you, told you that you won for all intents and purposes. Mission accomplished, no?

            What else would you like from me? The last word? By all means… knock yourself out.

          • Rad4Cap

            “told you that you won for all intents and purposes”

            Dishonesty on top of everything else. Guess its not surprising – given that honesty is an application OF reason, not to mention integrity TO reality.

            “Mission accomplished, no?”

            As pointed out, RATIONAL discussion isn’t about the other person. Its about the identification of the facts of reality. That is why “compromised” was the accurate word, not “owned”.

            But its obvious now that “using reason” is not M7s purpose here, nor the intent of his hardly used account on Disqus. ‘Competing’ with others (“winning” as he puts it) in verbal jousting seems to be his standard, NOT the identification of facts.

            I leave him to that mis-practice of his mis-defined “reason” and “logic”.

          • C. Christopher

            That has to be the most I have ever seen anyone so hellbent on proving someone wrong! Maybe his parents were killed by magic and he has had a vendetta against it ever since!?

          • Madara7

            Heh, you noticed that too, huh? Ah well, he sure doesn’t.

          • C. Christopher

            I’ve dealt with people like him. They’re the type that will argue ANYTHING and EVERYTHING. You could tell him he was right and he would then argue against that. My guess is that nobody ever paid attention to him and he’s got zero self-esteem. He gives trolls a bad name!

          • Madara7

            You know what, I’m just going to go ahead and block him.

            He’s incessantly popping up on every post on this site, browbeating his ‘opinions’ into people, or just being obnoxiously condescending. I’ve seen him literally type out ‘eye roll’ as an emote for fucks sake.

            Managed to give him a pat on the head and send him on his way in this thread, but I’ll lose my patience eventually, so it’s just not worth the aggravation.

            Which reminds me, he just finished making my point in a separate comment. Something about the Kylo and Rey fight with the crimson guards, and how it ‘fell flat’ because they didn’t employ the same abilities (or ‘magics’) in that fight that they demonstrated wielding in other parts of the film. Almost as if the use of magic in one part of the story, logically and reasonably dictates their use in another.

            Imagine my shock.

          • C. Christopher

            Yeah I’ve got little patience for intolerant people. It’s fine to present a point and to counter but when that person fights over some insignificant movie action like its life or death and attack people personally for their opinion then they’re only being a jerk.

  • vnomenon

    It’s just a great sci-fi adventure movie for cry out loud! Anything is possible, It’s cool that way.

    • So, you’d rather we didn’t talk about Star Wars at all? What would you like to talk about?

      • Games

        He is saying don’t get your panties in a bunch every time something new comes along. Instead of rushing to the first online website to say a movie sucks because something new was introduced, instead enjoy the movie for what it is, a frickin Sci Fi movie entertainment.

        • Rad4Cap

          A lot of people seem to really want others NOT to take stories and ideas seriously.

          That says FAR more about them than those they attack.

  • Rolta

    Not sure why they had to astral-project dye his beard and astral-project give him a haircut.

    I found that to be really distracting—obviously in the moment I didn’t realise it was a projection and all I could think about was Luke’s vanity in getting a haircut and dying his beard before turning up.

    Now I know it’s a projection I still can’t get over his vanity of projecting himself with a badly dyed beard and a new haircut.

    It was another stupid thing in a frikking stupid Disney movie.

    • Rad4Cap

      You presume vanity, when it could be something else.

      Why didn’t the fact that he was using a lightsaber which had already been destroyed ‘take you out of the moment’? Why didn’t the fact that he didn’t leave footprints leave you ‘really distracted’?

      Not sure why Luke couldn’t have gotten all the ‘facts’ right. That’s just “stupid”.


      Seriously. THESE are the complaints about the movie?!

      • Rolta

        It was distracting because it was really obvious that he had a dyed beard. Dying your beard I’ve always thought was a bit desperate, and it was just another stupid thing among a film of stupid things.

        Let me be clear, my complaints about the movie are vast and pretty much encompass every single thing I saw through the entire film. You can take your smug eyeroll and keep it to yourself! The film in its entirety is so bad.

        • Rad4Cap

          “Dying your beard I’ve always thought was a bit desperate”

          And, AGAIN, you presume that which is not evidenced in the film – ie “vanity” etc. Your “smug” conclusions are not the same as what the film ACTUAL shows.

          Focusing on such blatantly WRONG conclusions – about really PETTY points of the film – only serves to cast ALL your conclusions about it’s “every single thing” being “so bad” to be fanboy ranting, not rational identification of facts.

          The fact that he didn’t make footprints is not “bad”
          The fact that he used the blue lightsaber is not “bad”
          The fact that he looked as he did (in dress and age) when everyone last saw him is not “bad”.

          The fact that any of these things ARE considered “bad” just reveals someone DESPERATE to MINDLESSLY lash out and attack something.

          Unlike you, I won’t tell you to take your irrational ravings and keep them to yourself. I will, however, I will point out that they do nothing but DISCREDIT the case for the film being bad (which, on the whole, it is). Hopefully pointing out how such rantings do a disservice to your OWN conclusions will lead you to reconsider them of your own accord.

          • Rolta

            I’m talking about one point, a very minor one yes, because it’s relevant to the force powers talked about in this article. TBH, I thought the beard dying thing was amusingly awful.

            By talking about it I’m just bringing up one thing I noticed for discussion—funnily enough because this is a discussion board. I thought it was funny and, yep, stupid, and there’s no need to be such a d*** about it. I am no fanboy either mate!

            Because it’s such a minor thing doesn’t have any reflection whatsoever on my other complaints about the film. Just saying goonish things like ‘your blatantly wrong conclusions…fanboy rantings…not rational identification of facts…’ doesn’t make any of it true. As I say, I know the beard thing is minor. Who cares if it’s minor! I’ve said my piece on the film already and I had no intention of going into detail about my overall opinion—the topic of this thread just reminded me of the beard.

            For your sake, I’ll rephrase my original statement because you seem to have misunderstood me.

            The decision by the filmmakers to dye Luke Skywalker’s beard, cut his hair and dye his hair for that appearance at the end seemed really stupid and unnecessary to me. The dyed beard stood out.

            The filmmakers’ decisions left me imagining one possible explanation being down to Luke’s vanity. That I imagined that isn’t important. Quite frankly, I’d already given up on the film by that point and I wasn’t, like you, simply thinking brainlessly like a super fanboy, forgiving all the stupid things in this stupid film. It amused me. I don’t care if you want to make up some force reason why Luke would have a stupidly and obviously dyed beard as a projection—the film was balls and none of it matters—it didn’t look like a younger beard it looked like an old man’s beard dyed black. That’s what I’m talking about. That it looked stupid.

            And what’s with your capitalisations? I think you have some ego on you.

          • Rad4Cap

            “The dyed beard stood out.”

            Duh. It was supposed to – as was the lightsaber and all the other clues you missed and instead kept smearing as vanity etc.

            You were SUPPOSED to note something was off.

            “I don’t care if you want to make up some force reason why Luke would have a stupidly and obviously dyed beard…it didn’t look like a younger beard it looked like an old man’s beard dyed black.”

            Apparently you felt the same about the flashbacks then. He was vainly dying his beard then as well. LOL

            Thanks for demonstrating my point perfectly. You only discredit any argument you might ACTUALLY have for the film being bad by ranting about something that was not a problem but is baggage YOU add yourself. That you claim NOT to be a fanboy when you are raving about such “stupid” fanboy points only makes the ranting worse.

            Posts like yours are WHY those who think the film was good simply dismiss those who disagree. Calling the film “balls” because you didn’t like his beard is the ONLY thing “stupid” here.

            And, since that seems the only thing of which you are capable, I leave you to your ranting.

          • opiemac25

            The folks I saw it with and I reasoned that his beard was darker and hair shorter because that was how Kylo last saw him. That it would push him to action quicker by seeing his old master exactly as he last saw him.

          • Rad4Cap

            “that was how Kylo last saw him”


  • Kronx

    I didn’t like the Leia scene. It’s logical. You’re adrift in space and use the Force to pull yourself back to the ship. But it just didn’t work for me. There were other ways to show her using the Force that weren’t so hard to swallow.

    The Yoda stuff raises a lot of questions, but they’re questions we have had since OB1 was able to sit on a log in RotJ.

    But I don’t think it’s a gigantic leap to see a dead Jedi’s ability to manifest himself in the real world as related to Luke’s ability to project himself while alive.

    • ATLDC

      Agree on the Leia scene. I didn’t like her looking like she was doing the Jordan jump man pose and it could have been done differently. I would have preferred her use the force to move a large object that had fallen on her or someone else, something less goofy looking.

      I loved the Yoda scene. Since we’ve only ever seen a few Jedi force ghost and Yoda being the most powerful, nothing he does seems outside of the realm of believable. Lucas should probably not have had Qui-gon force ghost because it kind of cheapens the skill.

      • Jason Tyler

        qui-gon was never a force ghost

        • Madara7

          He’s probably referring to how Qui-gon innovated the act of becoming a force ghost, even if he himself never completed it in his own life/afterlife.

          It’s canon, for better or worse, that his disembodied voice (partial force ghost) instructed Yoda and Obi-Wan on how to fully ghost out.

          If you just meant to correct him on the point he wasn’t a force ghost exactly like the others, nevermind.

  • TheOct8pus

    I was hoping Kylo and Rey had long-distance force sex

  • opiemac25

    I’m a life long fan of these films and, I guess from the criticism I’m reading, a simple minded one, because I didn’t see any of these new Jedi powers as questionable.

    The force connection Rey and Kylo share, Luke himself says he’s only seen the type of raw power Rey possess once before, and this is a dude that spent some time around Obi Wan, Vader, and Yoda! So why is it such a stretch to imagine these two, with a push from Snoke (who we have also been lead to believe is super-powerful), would not be able to expand on something that we have seen before; Luke being watched by Yoda, Vader and Luke connecting, etc.

    Luke force projecting himself, also doesn’t seem like a stretch to me. So we can believe that they can project themselves from death and communicate with the living, but we can’t believe he can project himself to another planet. For me, it would seem like conquering death would be a tad more difficult.

    As for Leia’s space flight, while I did find the visual a little…goofy, I again don’t think it’s a stretch. Telekinesis, in various different depictions, is often involuntary. I realize the Star Wars Universe is different from other Universes out there, such as Marvel, but as a long time fan of Marvel books and films, I can tell you that telekinesis often protects the user while unconscious in those stories. As for her flying through space, apparently Force users can move objects with their minds but not themselves. And here it though Anakin, Luke, and the other Jedi were able to jump those great heights and distances with the help of the Force. I was unaware that it was all just incredible lower body strength.

    Listen, everyone has an opinion and are all entitled to them. A lot of the stuff I’ve read and discussions I’ve had seem to point to people going in with expectations of what they wanted to see/have answered and when they didn’t see what they wanted or didn’t like the answer they got, they are looking to tear it down. It’s Star Wars people! Enjoy the ride! Who would have thought we’d even be getting these movies 10 years ago!

  • Avatar Aang

    It hasn’t even been a week and the guy has released statements explaining his choices for nearly every single scene in the movie. I believe he is worried that the backlash will have a negative impact on the Star Wars trilogy he is currently developing.

David Kozlowski is a writer, podcaster, and visual artist. A U.S. Army veteran, David worked 20 years in the videogame industry and is a graduate of Arizona State University's Film and Media Studies.