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– by Seth McDonald

Since the moment Star Wars: The Force Awakens ended, fans have wondered what exactly is going on with Rey? Her insta-Jedi powers angered fans and led many to dub her a “Mary-Sue.”

For those that aren’t familiar with the term, a Mary-Sue is a character that seems to have all the abilities they need, when they need them. In simpler terms, it’s a flawless female character. In a recent interview posted by the YouTube channel Jar Jar Abrams, the actress who plays Rey, Daisy Ridley, recently expressed her dislike of the term:

“I don’t buy the Mary Sue thing anyway, I found the, I find the term sexist in itself, because its Mary Sue, I don’t think theres a thing called Ryan Craig, when I was doing it I never felt sure of like playing her I never felt sure of what was going on, it wasn’t like this is happening and I’m so powerful and look at me go, and essentially all I found Rey trying to do in the first one, was she was trying to do the right thing.”

RELATED: 4 Simple Ways that The Last Jedi Could Have Been Improved [SPOILERS]

Actually, Miss Ridley, there is a male version of the term known as a Gary Stu, though it is probably not used as much as Mary Sue, it does exist. And let’s be honest, not many people were even familiar with the term until The Force Awakens was released; I wasn’t.

For me, the verdict is still out, but I can see why people call Rey a Mary Sue. She defeated a trained Dark Side user her first time using a lightsaber, she appeared to be as good of a pilot as Han Solo, when really having no flight experience that we know of, so yeah, some things seem really convenient for her.

After watching The Last Jedi, do you think Rey is a Mary Sue? Let us know in the comments down below!

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Source: JarJarAbrams

  • M@rvel

    It is sexist.

    • Kindofabigdeal

      You’re moms sexist, er, I mean sexy.

  • Aaron James

    “Oh no! The main character of a Star Wars movie can use the Force and do cool stuff!”

    • Kindofabigdeal

      That’s not how the Force works. Or at least that’s not how it used to work.

      • Aaron James

        Well, there’s multiple reasons why people calling Rey a Mary Sue is distasteful.

        1. I strongly suspect it wouldn’t be much of an issue if her character was male. Sure, there might be some grumblings that its inconsistent with the original trilogy, but I doubt it would cause the kind of fuss it does now. I have no way of proving this. I can’t peer into the alternative universe where they made TFA and TLJ with a male lead, but the suspicion is there.

        2. There are ways to mentally justify Rey’s various skills. And the Force can be used to handwave away some of it. Only Jedi use lightsabers because only Jedi can use the Force to guide their hands to the right position to block a blaster shot, etc. Other people can turn a lightsaber on and wave it around, but they’re not going to be anywhere near as effective as a blaster if they haven’t got the Force to guide them.
        Luke is never shown learning how to use a lightsaber, apart from a single, brief introductory lessons from Obi-Wan in the first hour of ANH. There’s pretty strong evidence to suggest that skill with a lightsaber is intuitive, not the result of years of martial arts training.
        The same logic can be applied to Rey suddenly being an ace pilot. She’s familiar enough with ships, having worked as a mechanic for Unkar Plott (I think was his name?) and presumably taken his ships for test drives – her dialogue suggests she knows the Falcon well enough. With the Force on her side, her reflexes and intuition are enhanced.
        Those justifications may not work for you, but for me it doesn’t seem like that much of a stretch from Luke being a lightsaber master by the end of the original trilogy. Or being able to hop into an X-Wing and go dog-fighting in it at the end of ANH.

        3. Narrative convenience. Sometimes adhering strictly to internal logic can get in the way of good storytelling. Whether this breaks suspension of disbelief or not will differ from person to person, and also by how much a particular plot point breaks previously established rules.
        The internal logic of Star Wars has never been well defined. It’s always been pretty nebulous what the Force can do. It’s not like Star Trek, where there were detailed technical manuals for the writers, so they’d know exactly what they can and can’t do. Star Wars isn’t hard scifi, like Trek pretends to be. It’s science fantasy.
        Now, that doesn’t mean the writers can do anything they want with the Force. If Rey pulled out a wand and started casting Harry Potter-style spells, everyone would agree that that’s not how the Force works. But there’s plenty of leeway for the Force to do the sorts of things its been shown to do in the new trilogy.
        If it’s still breaking your suspension of disbelief, that’s fine. I don’t think this justifies calling Rey a Mary Sue, though.

        • Spencer Garver

          the mental gymnastics involved to get people to accept her as she is, is mind boggling. Maybe, just maybe, Disney and the writers involved really dont have a grasp on how a star wars movie works IN the star wars universe, or maybe just dont understand movie making 101…

          • Games

            The lengths people go to knock every frickin act in a Star Wars movie is the mind boggling thing. Are you people so obsessed with a movie that you can’t watch it for fun? You have to nit pick every moment? You are bound to hate movies when you at like that.

          • Matt Harkness

            It’s possible to enjoy bad movies and still have fun with them. I would hardly consider it “nitpicking” to realize something has issues

          • Rad4Cap

            How DARE you attack what I love! How DARE you suggest there have to be good REASONS for LOVING something! You are a hateful MONSTER!!

            😉

          • Rad4Cap

            The lengths people go to defend every frickin act in a Star Wars movie is the mindboggling thing. Are you people so obsessed with a movie that you have to turn your mind off to watch it? You have to ignore every moment? You are bound to love movies when you at like that.

          • Games

            Plagiarism! I will need you to report yourself for stealing anothers work without citing the source. Please next time write something original. Stealing another’s work is the first sign of lack of creativity.

          • Rad4Cap

            Non-sequiturs are logical fallacies. Thanks for demonstrating you have no RATIONAL argument to support your position.

            Appreciate you making that clear. 🙂

          • Games

            You literally stole my comment! And I lost the argument. SMH. Come up with an original thought and I might actually reply. Until then, stick to Lit 101.

          • Rad4Cap

            “I lost the argument”
            “I might actually reply”

            You did reply. And you explicitly recognized the fact you made an error in your argument. Mission accomplished. Thanks 🙂

          • Games

            I see we have a slow one here.

            When…you…come…up…with…an…original…comment…I…will…reply…to…that.

            Was that slow enough for you? Do you need me to type in smaller words? Maybe we can dumb this down to your level. I will do what you need to help you come up with an original thought. Would you like me to write the comment for you and send it your way so you can hope people here think you are smart? That way you can LOL all night long to yourself. Let me know.

          • Rad4Cap

            Well our slow typist has replied AGAIN. I don’t think he understands the meaning of the term. Or the concept of logical fallacy, since that’s all he’s posted so far.

            Just goes to show the intellectual level (read: 2nd grade given the primitive insults) of SW fanboy defenders.

            And reviewing our insult-artist wannabe posting history, it becomes apparent all he CAN do is spew insults. So we’ve got a griefer-troll here. Always nice when they self identify like this. One doesn’t have to waste time on them trying to sort the intellectual wheat from the chaff. One gets to *immediately* turn their volume OFF.

            Griefer BLOCKED

          • Games

            ^^^Last word hero here! ^^^

            Sorry, should have typed:

            Last….word….hero….here!

            You got it sport!!! Keep up the good work!

          • Aaron James

            The thing is, none of these mental gymnastics were actually necessary for me. I saw the movies, liked them, never gave a single thought as to whether the Force behaved consistently. It was only after I encountered people calling Rey a Mary Sue that I found myself thinking about it in any kind of detail.

          • Rad4Cap

            “Maybe, just maybe, Disney and the writers involved really dont have a
            grasp on how a star wars movie works IN the star wars universe, or maybe
            just dont understand movie making 101…”

            Or? Embrace the power of “and”.

  • BKUZ

    It isn’t sexist. It’s calling out a poorly written character.

    • Moby85

      While I don’t agree that Rey’s character as in personality is poorly written, her mastery of extreme Force powers is.

      • BKUZ

        Yes, I agree

  • HaroldNMaudeDib

    Luke was an ace pilot with only beggars canyon training (lol) so I can kind of buy that Rey learned how to fly ships on jakku and stuff. Plus the force is with her.

    Even her Force abilities I was ready to be convinced that there was an explanation for all of that but Rian Johnson punted on that.

    The light saber skills were the most bothersome to me. She should have been brave, aggressive but clumsy with that thing (that’s what she said) and done her best against Ren in Force Awakens only to have him beat her badly, spare her, offer to train her and then get saved by the ravine opening up.

    • Rad4Cap

      Actually the lightsaber efficiency is about the only thing that wasn’t bothersome. She spent her whole life defending herself with a staff weapon. As we saw on A2, she was basically adapting what she already knew very well to the new weapon.

      • Kindofabigdeal

        At one point Lucas wanted the sabers to be powerful weapons to wield. Kind of like King Arthurs Excalibur. But he retconned that with the prequels.
        Still, I don’t think that just a staff ability could make you efficient with a saber. I think it should have allowed her to cut some of them down, but should have been over taken since they are, you know, elite guards.
        It would have been even cooler if the guards survived and told Hux, which would have put the two of them on the run. With no one else to turn to he has goes into hiding with Rey who has the books. We could even get a Chewey choke Kylo briefly like he did Lando, only to remember him as a boy on the Falcon and let him go. Jesus we write this thing better than Disney.

        • Seth McDonald

          Hamill has said that George told him the were heavy and needed two hands, yep like Excalibur.

  • Conspiracyin559

    By the second film Luke had been fucked up near to death by a yeti, barely escaped being trampled by a steel elephant, been guided to a master by a ghost who realized this kid needed guidance, and was still was so inept his infantcidal father just toyed with him and chopped off his hand so he’d remember how truly weak he was. This chick? She’s lifting boulders, stunt flying, mental Skyping, and hypnotizing motherfuckers like a master while being fresh from the womb.

    MARY SUE

    And quickly becoming a reactionary nit wit in real life.

    • Kindofabigdeal

      Why am I such a misfit
      I am not just a nit wit
      Just because I’m overly strong
      Why can’t I fit in

    • Victor Lucero

      totally… they coul’d have told us or shown us her childhood on VII or VIII she moving objects without knowing what’s going on, so we have a hint she might be a prodigy or something, but still not even Anakin the most powerful force user to ever exist was able to use the force during his childhood… but here she just does, because they didn’t want to develop the character to achieve it, giving her all the set of powers she needs from almost the start

    • armyof100clowns

      Conspiracy – you win the internet for that Tarantino-esque post! Bravo!

  • Ian Finnimore

    Eh, I’m sure there is a word like “Hot shot” or “alpha male” that has been used in a similar way many times over the years.

    “Little miss perfect” has always been my interpretation of Mary Sue – Threepeo has more personality than Rey so I don’t give her a second thought.

    • Kindofabigdeal

      I beg your pardon.

  • HaroldNMaudeDib

    I thought Mary Sue’s were supposed to be characters that stood in for the author or served as some sort of wish fulfillment on their part. It’s not enough that the character be flawless, the character must also be a kind of proxy for the author.

    If that’s true I don’t think JJ Abrams or Lawrence Kasdan were trying to project themselves into the story through Rey.

    And if I’m understanding it correctly a Mary Sue is perfect and flawless. While Rey seems to be way over proficient with the force, piloting, saber fighting, technical ship knowledge and language skills she does have a major flaw in that she’s tied to Jakku and scarred by familial abandonment. This has held her back for what seems to be at least ten years of her life and continues to restrict her in Force Awakens and resurfaces in The Last Jedi, when she finally seems to confront and overcome it.

  • Weresmurf

    When Episode 7 hit, I originally said “No, she isn’t a Mary Sue, we don’t know enough about her background… we don’t know if Luke trained her? We don’t know her skillset? We don’t know what’s going on to judge her? She’s NOT a Mary Sue at this point!”

    Unfortunately for Daisy and the Star Wars cast, Episode 8 MADE Rey officially into a Mary Sue character whether she likes it or not. Suddenly, Rey is able to wield a lightsaber with ease. I accept easily she’s proficient with a staff, but one does not immediately become a master of all weapons after learning to use one. Especially given she’s suddenly wielding it with warrior like ability against that rock. Jedi in the prequels trained for years to become proficient, using the Force to enhance their ability, she did it after picking it up and using it twice.

    The whole picking up the rocks and moving them? I get she can pick up one, Luke did it after all, but moving the whole doorway, multiple objects requiring so much concentration? Come on…

    The fight against the Praetorians? Come off it. Skilled best-of-the-best warriors vs Rey and Kylo Ren was STRUGGLING? Again, they Mary Sue’d the fuck out of that scene. At no point did she genuinely feel in trouble, yet Kylo consistently felt like he was being beaten down to the point of needing her help to get out of situations.

    If you’re not a Mary Sue in Star Wars Daisy, you’re doing an incredible impression of one that’s for sure…

    • Rad4Cap

      Actually I thought the fight against the Praetorians was bad for a different reason. They ONLY used lightsabers. Where were any force maneuvers – from leaping to pushing, pulling, etc? It seemed like Kylo (and Rey to some degree) should have been able to wipe the floor with them – ESPECIALLY as strong as they demonstrate themselves to be in the force.

      • Weresmurf

        They used the force too, a push was used and the grabbing of the sabre to put into the Praetorians head by Kylo. But I get what you mean, there should have been choking done by Kylo, lightning used etc. But, I do stand by what I said, Rey should’ve been clumsy and half assed, getting rescued constantly by Kylo, which she wasn’t. She ended up rescuiing him.

        • Rad4Cap

          I saw it less of ‘rescuing’ him than opening an opportunity for him to rescue himself. But, like you, I get what you mean.

          But I stand by what I said as well. Rey was able to quite effectively defend herself against multiple attackers on Jakku (presumably not for the first time). So there was no reason for her to be “half assed”. She had been training all her life (out of necessity). Combined with her ability to now tap into the force while using her familiar tactics, she indeed should have been at least able to hold her own.

          Either way, despite so many praising this scene, it fell flat for me because it contradicted all that had been set up for the characters and their abilities to that point. It was fun to see them work together. But – like Luke at the finale – it should have been a whole lot more.

          • Weresmurf

            My primary issue there, is that just because one is skilled with one weapon, does not make them proficient in all weapons. One who trains in say, the bo-staff, does not make them proficient or knowledgeable in the katana (the closest approximations here). Rey definitely knows how to fight, there’s no doubt there, it’s merely the efficiency at which she suddenly adopts the lightsaber that becomes jarring. If we had seen shots of her training with Luke, or perhaps shots of her stuffing around with the saber, slowly building up her proficiency, even if there had *been* a time jump between the films rather than an instant carry on, that would have been plausible, but it wasn’t alas.

          • Rad4Cap

            “just because one is skilled with one weapon, does not make them proficient in all weapons”

            Agreed. Because someone is proficient with a gun does not make them proficient with nunchucks. But, as her training routine demonstrated, she was able to use the light saber in much the same way she could use her staff. The movements were comparable. She could use it in a similar way to the way she had trained for a long time with her staff.

            Is she using the saber in the same way an expert trained with the light saber would use it? Certainly not. But that is something quite different from saying she just can’t use it at all or must be clumsy with it.

            Did you find her morning training routine to be out of place? Did she do anything with it differently than she did with her staff? Was there a movement she made with her staff which she somehow shouldn’t have been able to make with the saber?

            I didn’t see any.

        • Moby85

          Hey Weresmurf. I’m sick of Marketing. Lets quit our jobs, get Rian Johnson fired, and make the new Star Wars trilogy ourselves. OK? Have your people, call my people…

    • Victor Lucero

      She pretty much is, and from now on any attempt to make her more realistic will be because the fans that actually pay attention (not trying to offend anyone, but come on, a lot of folks say stuff like “just enjoy everything they put on the table” = accept every fucking shit they put out)
      do realize they went the cheap way with her, yeah the force “awakened” but there was some spiritual knowledge to it, some training, there is jedi history, and now it dosn’t matter just because the previous movie was tittled “the force awakens” which is bullshit, why it didn’t “awake” to put balance when there was only Obi Wan and Yoda left, then just Yoda, and then Luke… it’s bullshit if the force was going to awake when there was more darkness than light it should have done it a long ago, and if it’s to keep balance, why it didn’t awake when the sith were almost extinct

    • Moby85

      Weresmurf, I am right with you buddy. I felt the exact same after the Force Awakens, I gave Rey the benefit of the doubt, but here I am with you.

  • Kindofabigdeal

    While I don’t agree that it’s a sexist term, I really don’t hope that the ugliest fan boys don’t blow up her social media with comments of Mary Sue. Daisy is still a hot chick and fine actress. She didn’t write the damn movie.
    But she should simmer down and read TV tropes to see what it exactly means, with an open mind.

  • RadicalAgnostic

    Gary Stu, Daisy. The male version *does* have a name.

  • Behemothrex

    Okay well show me one situation were she doesn’t triumph, show me one problem she can’t solve, etc, etc. They may not have intended for her to be a Mary Sue but well she sure acts like one.

  • Moby85

    I like Rey’s personality. I even like her backstory as of TLJ, and I like her look. But even I will admit her mastery of Force powers with very little training is a bit too much. By the time episode 9 rolls around she may be a, and I’m serious here given the present course, a self-taught Jedi Master.

    C’mon, C’mon…Virtue signalling that we’re “sexist” for thinking there’s something wrong with that is so cheap Daisy. And I’m more in your corner than many Star Wars fans are. But you went low there and that knocks you down a point in my books – as an actress.

  • Matt Harkness

    How about making all the male characters in your movie impulsive, hot headed, manipulative or total dipshits and all your female roles inspiring, directive, caring loving little darlings?

    Is that considered sexist as well?

    • Rad4Cap

      “Is that considered sexist as well?

      Of course not. Everyone knows that’s just the facts. That’s just reality.

      😉

  • Kronx

    Has no one considered that maybe Luke just wasn’t that bright?

    But seriously…

    I would definitely consider her a Mary Sue in TFA. She uses the Jedi Mind Trick without even knowing it exists. But in TLJ all she really does is hang out with Luke, crawl in a moist ground vagina and move a few rocks.

    • Rad4Cap

      What I love is that the people defending the film, and specifically its treatment of Luke Skywalker, are contradicting the film’s explicit message. For them, his prior character doesn’t matter. All that matters is they way he is written now. Yet, as the mirror experience tried to tell Rey, she is her history. What appears to be destiny and determinism is simply the actions SHE has taken. SHE, not something else (parents etc), are what define her.

      Luke’s character is a logical progression. This film BROKE that progression – it BROKE the mirror.

      • Kronx

        What I love about the film is that it lets you fill in a lot of blanks yourself. The unknown can be much more satisfying that way. Way too many movies feel they need to explain every single detail nowadays.

        It also courts the danger of not connecting enough dots for some folks, especially when it comes to previously established characters. For me, Luke’s story tracks. For others, it doesn’t.

        This is a film about the duality of failure, so it’s kind of good that people seem to be split down the middle about it.

        But I think if you come back to it after a few months, you might have a different take on it. And so might I. Who knows?

        • Rad4Cap

          “For me, Luke’s story tracks.”

          How does going over to your Sister’s and Best Friend’s son’s room, pulling out your gun, and contemplating MURDERING that kid “track” with the character of the man who refused to kill his mass murdering father because there was a CHANCE to turn him from being evil?

          There is no consistency – no “track” – from one to the other. That is (in this case, literally as well as figuratively) a world-shattering contradiction. That would be like Darth Vader being his genocidal self in one film and being dressed all in pink, throwing flowers and spewing Hippie peace slogans in the next.

          If you don’t care about character development, fine. If you don’t care about good storytelling, and accept whatever is dropped in front of you, fine. If you don’t see the failure and thus can NOT learn from it, that says nothing about the films theme but does say much about other things.

          • Aaron James

            Rad4Cap has blocked me, so he can’t see this. It feels a little unfair to critique his argument when he has no right of reply, but he’s the one who blocked me, so I don’t feel particularly guilty.

            Firstly, he begins from a fallacious position, positing that TLJ and Luke’s characterisation in particular are objectively bad. That rubs me the wrong way, but harping pointlessly on fallacies is his thing, so I’ll move on to the meat of the argument.

            I’m yet to completely understand what people think Luke’s character should have been. As far as I’m concerned, his portrayal in TLJ is completely consistent with the original trilogy. Yes, Luke was determined to save his father, but he abandoned that the moment his father threatened Leia. he flew into a blind rage and tried to kill his father. What happens with Ben Solo is an echo of that. And it’s a much weaker echo. He doesn’t fly into a blind rage. He doesn’t try to kill Ben Solo. He briefly considers the notion of killing his nephew, and then recoils away from that nation, consumed by guilt and horror. I don’t know what else to call that EXCEPT consistency. There’s no need to fill in any details yourself. There’s a direct line between how Luke behaves and reacts at the end of RotJ, and how he reacts and behaves in TLJ.

            If anything, Luke’s arc in TLJ is probably the best example of good character development and good storytelling in the entire Star Wars franchise. The fact that Rad4Cap thinks it’s somehow an example of the opposite says much about him.

  • Nay sayer!

    I got nothing to add that the commenters haven’t brilliantly added already. Just that personally the only thing I’ll watch from this point are the Star Wars stories. I have no interest in ep9 nor whatever garbage Johnson churns out

  • Atirus

    Yet no one is calling out that kid at the end of the movie for knowing how to use the Force without training? Why do fantasy elements in films have to make sense in order for people to be satisfied or to like a film? *sigh* Just enjoy it for what it is and stop trying to get answers to everything that quite frankly isn’t that god damn important.

    • Rad4Cap

      ‘Don’t try to make sense of things, DAMMIT! Do what Poe did and just learn to blindly accept whatever you’re told!’

      LOL

  • noahwayne0

    Don’t hide behind the gender card, it cheapens actual sexism.

    I thought Rey was a poorly written, boring character in the Force Awakens. She could do no wrong – which is boring. She was mansplaining the Falcon to Han Solo….she felt more robot than human…..She was boring like how Superman in the movies has been mostly boring – he has no real weakness, can do no wrong, etc. He is a Gary Stu. She is a Mary Sue.

    The most interesting thing about her was the question of who her parents were.

    That said, The Last Jedi corrected some of those flaws by showing her screw up, showing she was fallible and human. I think she was a much better character TLJ.

    • Cuban9222

      Yup. If Anakin’s midichlorian count was 20,000 which was higher than Yoda’s (explained in eps 1), then Rey’s and Kylo’s midi count must be around 50,000!!