– by Joseph Jammer Medina

Disclaimer: This post contains MASSIVES SPOILERS for Star Wars: The Last Jedi.

Star Wars: The Last Jedi has just hit theaters, and based on the very polarized reactions to the film, it seemed to have hit with the impact of an atomic bomb. Critics may have loved the film — as did general audiences, as evidenced by the A CinemaScore — but there is one group of fans that find themselves decided split. I’m talking about the hardcore Star Wars fans. Those who consume everything Star Wars, and find themselves constantly steeped in the mythology we all know and love.

Just peruse through our comments for a minute or two, and it’s very clear that many are not very happy with the direction of the latest film. If you’re brave, venture onto YouTube and read some of the reviews, and you start to see a real trend in the comments being made by naysayers.

RELATED – Why CRITICS Are Wrong About Star Wars: The Last Jedi [SPOILERS]

Many complain about Luke Skywalker’s move to kill Kylo Ren, Snoke’s death, Rey’s parents’ revelation, and the idea of a young, untrained Force users actually being able to competently utilize the Force. This film takes all of our preconceived notions about the mythology and twists them to their own ends. Additionally, it takes many fans’ speculations over the past two years and renders them inconsequential.

Fans responded in a fury, with many claiming it’d only be a matter of time before we missed George Lucas, and that Disney was destroying the Star Wars movies.

And if the numerous comments were enough, some YouTubers themselves have gone on to say why they think Star Wars Episode IX is in trouble thanks to the actions of The Last Jedi. You can check out one of those videos below:

While the points made are childish at best, the overwhelmingly positive rating the video shows that he’s not alone.

But are they right? You’ll note that my review for the film was incredibly positive, and after seeing the film a second time, I stand by that review. With that in mind, you may be (understandably) quick to brush off this piece altogether, but at least hear me out.

Before I get into why so many fans are wrong, I do want to say this: if you don’t like the film, that’s okay. While I absolutely loved the movie, there are more than a couple reasons why viewers could legitimately not care for the film.

No, not all the different plotlines are equally interesting, and yes, there are some clashes in tone. Those aren’t the only things that can be rightfully poked and prodded. So if that’s you, then we have no problem.

However, if your opinion on the film somehow skews into “what I wanted to happen didn’t happen,” then you’re going about it all wrong.

So with that in mind, here are a handful of reasons why many hardcore fans who hate The Last Jedi are wrong.

They Are Too Invested In Mythology

Let’s face it. With any film franchise that has a lot of baggage. Fans have been bitter with Lucasfilm ever since they rendered the old Extended Universe non-canon. No longer are the countless books, comics, and video games that they grew up consuming a part of the ever-growing mythology, and every step this franchise takes away from the the EU (now dubbed “Legends”) is another step away from what they loved about the franchise.

But let’s say for a second that these fans still loved new canon Extended Universe. They probably read up on the backstories of such characters as Snoke and Captain Phasma. These are characters who are featured in The Last Jedi, and after getting a taste of what these characters were like in these books, some audiences were likely all too eager to see their favorite aspects of these characters portrayed on the big screen.

Unfortunately for them, the film was more interested in going its own way, and less interested in servicing the secondary characters that had been built up in the books.

While being minorly disappointed in not getting what you wanted is understandable, the fact that the filmmakers decided to go a different route than you would have should not be held against them just because you fell in love certain aspects of the material. The reality is that few people read that material to begin with, and that the filmmaker is free to emphasize on whatever aspects of the universe that helps them best tell their story.

They Are Too Invested In Their Own Theories

If you’ve been on the internet for the past couple years, you may have realized how many videos, articles, and podcasts there are dedicated to Star Wars. Hell, you may have noticed how many of those things are dedicated not only to Star Wars, but to perhaps a single aspect of Star Wars. Who are Rey’s parents? What’s the deal with Snoke? Will they delve into Finn and Phasma’s relationship?

Ever since Star Wars: The Force Awakens hit theaters, fans have had two full years to speculate as to what the answers to these questions will be. Not only have they had two years to speculate, but they’ve had two years to stew in their own ideas, to surround themselves with those who believe in those same theories, and to remain convinced that it’s the best way the next film could answer unfold.

Of course, we’re all fans here, but we’re also more than aware of how toxic entitlement can be. After spending a lot of time with their own ideas, fans not only expect the answer to fall in line with their own thinking, but they become personally insulted when their theories don’t pan out, and angry when a filmmaker pretty much renders any speculation moot.

No longer do they go to a film wanting to be surprised. No, they go to a film wanting their own personal expectations of what should happen, to be fulfilled. Fans know what they want, and when those desires aren’t met, they get upset.

They Are Too Invested In Their Own Opinions On How Characters Should Act

Luke Skywalker was a very contentious character in Star Wars: The Last Jedi. After decades of having spent time with him on screen, and decades more on reading up on his follow-up adventures in the now-defunct Expanded Universe, fans think they know what’s best when it comes to the characters.

The problem is, they often assume that characters don’t change after we last see them.

This may somewhat fall under fans becoming too invested in mythology. However, the sad reality is that there is pretty much no such thing as happily ever after, and after the credits rolled in Return of the Jedi, real life continued on in this world, and the years were not-so-pleasant for the former lead cast. While Luke may have redeemed Vader, he would likely have been mentally scarred by that situation.

Given the things he’s seen, his fear of the Dark Side is more than understandable. And despite any growth he had in Return of the Jedi, there were decades for that work to become undone. As such, given the information we know, it’s more than possible that he’d become the crotchety old man we saw in The Last Jedi, even if it’s the less than ideal version of him we wanted to see.

Too many comments have I seen of people saying Luke should have been as wise as Yoda, but Yoda wasn’t even as wise as Yoda until The Empire Strikes Back. Plus, at the end of the day he’s still human, and Luke having massive character flaws shouldn’t be a controversial thing.

To top it all off, what qualifies a fan to know exactly how a character should act after decades of not seeing them? Sorry, but unless you know what this character has actually been through, your opinion doesn’t really matter. If you say Luke should be as wise as Yoda, you have no foundation to stand on other than your desire to see him become the wise old man we hoped he would be.

They Don’t Understand (Or Care About) Storytelling

Here’s the big one. Now, I don’t want this to come off as overly mean and aggressive, but this is a big part of it. A lot of fans simply do not understand — and maybe don’t even care — about storytelling. Like those who are overly-invested in the mythology of the franchise, many aren’t here to see a story told.

They don’t want a story told so much as they want to see what happens. The evidence of this can be seen in the countless comments that popped up in spoiler-filled critic reviews that popped up before anyone outside of critics even had a chance to see the movie. The comments were littered with comments by how “VERY disappointed” they were in what they heard about the film.

There were comments about how much better the prequels were than The Last Jedi, and how the franchise needed to be seized from Disney at all costs. I’m sorry, but if prior to the release of the movie, you were one of those people who made those comments, the sad reality is you don’t care about storytelling. You care about things happening that you wanted to happen. And if you were already angry based on spoilers you’d heard, then chances are you went into the film ready to hate it, strengths aside.

To a lesser extent, I’d also like to address some other comments that revolve around characters making stupid decisions. While not all the decisions made by characters in the film were smart ones (Poe, for instance), it bears reminding that people make mistakes. That is one thing that we often lose perspective of as audience members. We see the film from a near-omniscient perspective, and become incensed when characters make decisions we wouldn’t agree with.

While there is a limit to how much that’s acceptable in storytelling, it’s worth at least stating that audiences should try their best to see things from their characters’ perspectives before crying foul. Just because actions taken by Poe eventually led to the Resistance getting betrayed doesn’t mean that the characters knew it was going to happen. That ain’t how life works. Life is full of obstacles, and it’s even more full of the mistakes we make trying to overcome them. I can’t think of a film that better illustrates that point than The Last Jedi, and it makes for some strong storytelling.

Before I close out, I’d like to reiterate one point: You’re allowed to not like the movie. All movies and stories are subjective, so there is no right or wrong. However, those claiming the film is an awful mess based on the “what” and now the “why” or “how” should really take an extra step back to evaluate the film on its actual merits, and not what it does to the Star Wars franchise they love so much.

What do you think? Do you disagree with some of the statements made above? Let us know your thoughts down below!

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  • Rad4Cap

    ” A lot of fans simply do not understand — and maybe don’t even care — about storytelling.”

    This film was a textbook case of BAD storytelling. It WAS a mess – in its tone, characterization, plotting, and themes.

    • DubCheezy

      Exactly right. I had no problems with the any of the points brought up in this Article, TLJ was just a poorly written film that set aside narrative and logic in favor of of thematic philosophy. Most of all there was no literal progression in the story as a whole; a spaceship flew across space and a bunch of people died.

      • Rad4Cap

        Apparently there IS a progression in the story as a whole. At the beginning, there was no ‘spark’ – no hope – no legend (apparently destroying a super-death star is nothing any more). The Republic is dead, the ‘Resistance’ is dying, and no one wants to fight the ‘New Order’. Then Luke returns and dies – and that is supposedly the ‘spark’ – the new hope – the new legend – which ignites the ‘Rebellion’, somehow.

        That is the ‘progression’.

        Of course, it makes no logical sense – but that’s a separate issue.

        Put simply, this movie is the Anti-Empire Strikes Back. It takes EVERY plot point from Empire and simply reverses it. And people eat this up as ‘new’, ‘fresh’, and ‘different’.


    • “What went on in this film was not world-BUILDING but world-DISINTEGRATING.”


    • Sometime world building IS world disintegrating. To build something new sometimes you need to tear down the old.

      • Rad4Cap

        “To build something new…” being the KEY missing ingredient.

        These last two movies tell us NOTHING about this ‘new’ galaxy. We don’t even have the basics that were given to us in a New Hope – ala we are in a galaxy-spanning Empire, ruled by an Emperor, which just went full on dictatorship. We know NOTHING – have NO context – for ANY of the mindless repetition of TFA or the mindless reversal of ESB.

        All we’ve had are slavish mirrorings of what was created before.

        • When I say something new I am referring to what is to come after this movie.

          • Rad4Cap

            Well thanks for admitting there was nothing new here 😉

    • NikolaiG

      Absolutely true. The author, by making that a subheading, was really asking for it.

  • Rad4Cap

    Is this what has become of LRM? Condescension and bullying?

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      Apologies if it comes across in a condescending way. It’s just a passionate opinion piece. But it is an opinion, so you’re more than able to disagree.

      • Rad4Cap

        “Apologies if it comes across in a condescending way”

        If? IF?

        Did you even read your own title and bullet points?

        “Why Hard Core Fans Are Wrong About Star Wars”
        “They Are Too Invested In Mythology”
        “They Are Too Invested In Their Own Theories”
        “They Are Too Invested In Their Own Opinions On How Characters Should Act”
        “They Don’t Understand (Or Care About) Storytelling”

        There is NOTHING ‘respectful’ in your approach to disagreement here. Not in your points NOR your explanations of them. It was ALL condescension. You basically just called those who didn’t like TLJ ignorant fanboys. You did NOT treat them as people with rational objections AT ALL.

        You could not have been more condescending if you TRIED.

        • ImmortalSix

          Do you want a tissue or just like complaining?

          • Rad4Cap

            And the insult-griefers make their inevitable appearance.


          • ImmortalSix

            Sorry – didn’t mean to offend you and my apologies… I found that within your comment your use of CAPITAL letters was like shouting which was what I reacted to…

        • Kindofabigdeal

          It’s like when you start off a conversation by saying “I’m not racist but…”

      • Wild Dreams

        Passionate or not it definitely comes across as extremely negative, granted we all have different tastes but in the end all opinions are just that….opinions. Us not liking or agreeing with certain parts definitely does not mean we don’t know good story telling lol.

        • Joseph Jammer Medina

          I don’t necessarily mean not agreeing with certain parts. this mostly applies to fans who are upset that the characters didn’t do what they wanted them to do, or that the story didn’t do what they wanted it to. But I definitely get your point.

          • Rad4Cap

            Except I don’t think anyone has been demanding that the characters do “X”. They have been upset that, of all they actions available to them, this was the action they chose. The choices, in most cases, were BAD character choices – BAD writing.

            Example – you want Luke to contemplate murdering Leia’s son in his sleep because he might turn to the dark side? You sure as HELL better set up SOME explanation for that MASSIVE change in his character, ie HOW he went from being someone who will FORGIVE mass murder on the level of BILLIONS for the CHANCE that the person will become good again to someone who can’t take the chance that a person will become bad.

            You PROVIDE some plausible cause for that change, great. You’ve got a good story. ABSENT some explanation – some cause – for such a RADICAL change in character, ALL you have is BAD characterization and BAD storytelling.

            Going in ‘different directions’ is fine. ABANDONING characterization to do it is NOT.

    • NikolaiG

      I have noticed in reviews and comments, that those defending TLJ very very often engage in ad hominem attacks, attacking the person posting their opinion rather than countering the arguments themselves.

      • Rad4Cap

        Unfortunately, I think that is just a symptom of today’s ‘culture’. It is VERY emotion driven. And most people view emotions as uncontestable. What one likes and doesn’t like (usually couched as an ‘opinion’ when in fact they are referencing a feeling) is viewed by most as a given. One’s opinions – one’s feelings – one’s emotions – can’t be wrong. They just “are”. You can’t help but like or dislike something – just as you can’t help what food you like or dislike.

        This is why you will see MANY people on both sides of TLJ issue preface their statement that having a different ‘opinion’ is perfectly acceptable. They are declaring there is NO right or wrong when it comes to these ideas – because ultimately NO one is supposedly talking about ideas. Everyone – on both sides – is supposedly talking about their unchallengable emotions.

        Thus they feel if you attack their ‘opinion’, you are attacking THEM. You are attacking who and what they are. They believe they can’t help but feel what they feel. They are just born feeling a certain way. Thus, if you attack their ‘opinion’ that is the same as attacking their race or their sex. You are attacking them for something beyond their control. You are being ‘hateful’. And they respond in kind. They do not try to reason, because they do not consider such things to be the subject of reasoning. Your emotions are supposedly causeless – and thus necessarily beyond logic.

        So when you talk about bad characterization or bad plotting etc – and if they liked it – then you are calling THEM bad. That is their view (and it is not limited to Art. They hold this view in almost EVERY realm).

        That is why they resort to ad homs and the like. To them, the argument is nothing but a rationalization for attacking them. Why should they pretend to be logical about the issue when (so they believe) the issue is unrelated to logic.

        Of course this ignores the fact that your ideas ultimately DICTATE your emotions. But the primary philosophies preached and practiced around the world today have almost unanimously accepted the idea which goes back to ancient Greece (and earlier) that there is a dichotomy between emotions and reason – and that emotions are the primary.

        THAT is why one sees reason more and more OPENLY discarded – regardless the subject matter.

  • Neil Pye

    I generally enjoyed the movie. The only reservation I have with the movie is that it felt like the final chapter of the trilogy rather than the middle piece. They killed the big bad guy, they effectively destroyed most of both armies, and they gave a final send off to a major character. Even the ending with the stable-boy kind of said, “This part of the story is over, but the future generation goes on.”

    • Rad4Cap

      I *think* where they are going with it is a more ‘egalitarian’ approach. They closed the Skywalker Saga and are now making it a general ‘war’ of all against all. They’ve done away with the ‘hero’s journey’ and someone who is ‘the chosen one’ and are opening this into a blurrily defined war to be fought by everyone and anyone.

      This makes sense from a Disney POV. They don’t have a long term, over arching story they wish to tell. Instead they’re transitioning it into a television like format where a series of stories that happen to revolve around changing characters occurs.

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      I thinks that’s another reason I appreciated it. It didn’t feel like it was holding thing back, which was refreshing for our franchise-laden era, where everything is meant to build up to something else.

  • Wild Dreams

    I disagree with the majority of this…..First I don’t see how it’s even remotely fair to say fans are too invested in the mythology, especially for a franchise that’s been around this long. A lot of us grew up with these characters and stories so seeing some of the opinions ppl have about this new direction this movie is not surprising at all and very much justified in some cases.

    I personally didn’t hate the movie but it definitely had a lot wrong with it. For every interesting bit here or there there were several other bad ones. I accepted that the force awakens was a stars wars movie for a new generation so I was excited to see where they’d take the franchise but for every new revelation or set up for the future TFA gave us The Last Jedi either completely ignored or made insignificant. To say that “a lot fans don’t understand good story telling or even care” is not fair especially when we were fed for the most part junk. Having expectations and personal theories is cool and I think most wouldn’t mind if what they wanted or hoped would happen didn’t go as planned so long as we got a good story, in the end with this film we didn’t get that.

    • Kindofabigdeal

      Don’t worry, JJ will make the events of TLJ all a dream Finn had while he was unconscious.

      • Azazel

        As awful as that sounds, I’d be ok with it.

      • Momitchell

        That would explain Leia flying through space like an angel…

    • Aaron James

      So, I thing that’s really important about the setup in TFA is that JJ Abrams invented all those mysteries, but had no idea how they would be resolved. It was, essentially, his gift to the directors who were to follow him (remember that at the time, he wasn’t slated to return for Ep 9). This has been made very clear in interviews with both Abrams and Johnson. When Johnson sat down to write his script, he had no direction whatsoever as to how he should address any of the mysteries set up in TFA.

  • Rad4Cap

    “I’m sorry, but if prior to the release of the movie, you were one of
    those people who made those comments, the sad reality is you don’t care
    about storytelling. You care about things happening that you wanted to

    So, according to Joseph, it is wrong to hear a spoiler about a movie and dislike the movie BECAUSE of what is contained in that spoiler. So if one heard that a Star Wars movie had a scene with a ghost yoda and a ghost emperor making out, it is the “sad reality” that YOU are the problem if you don’t care for that event – if it puts you off. That event is FINE. There is NO cause for YOU complaining. YOU simply don’t like storytelling.

    Talk about an IRRATIONAL view of “storytelling”.

  • FeixPunk

    I think this film needs multiple viewings to appreciate, and I have only seen it once so far. Episode VII loses luster with each viewing in my mind, but this was enjoyable from the get go. Let me state that I am a huge Star Wars fan. I have invested so much of my life in the EU that I was VIOLENTLY angry at its cancellation. Outside of these new movies I have REFUSED to be a part of rehashed Thrawn stories, and ignorant and crappy sounding plots in books that can’t give too much away because Disney doesn’t want anything to outshine their movies. This movie is far from perfect as a film, I fancy myself a crappy film maker and this is better than what I do on YouTube. However, it is a good Star Wars story. It is a good EU story, it incorporates much from The Legacy of the Force books for Luke and Kylo (NOT BEN!!! But Jacen) in character. Luke states in this movie that he thought he could do things because he was “Luke Skywalker”. Yoda admonishes him again for being too focused on adventure and excitement. Luke had one of the best progressions of any character coming into this new trilogy (Can we start using NT for these yet?). I think many people really are upset they were wrong about their theories. I never EVER wanted any connections to Rebels, Clone Wars, or the Prequel era books. I believe this film is divisive because it changes so much. Take away the fact that Poe shouldn’t be there and his part should be filled by Finn, the horrible “horse” escape scene, and you have a decent film overall, but trust me, as a Star Wars Tattoo having mega-fan, this is a good Star Wars movie… May the force be with you all!

  • Kay

    As someone who is steeped in psychology all day, I loved what they did with Luke’s character. The fact is, as a young adult, his family was killed and he was practically forced into becoming a war hero, only to learn he was fighting his own father. Finally, this is done and he settles down. Some years later, he sees power in his own nephew and decides, I can be his mentor and make sure he makes the right decisions. . . . Only to then see his nephew go dark and history about to repeat itself. If this doesn’t call for some traumatic responses, I don’t know what does. It makes senses he’d end up on an island trying to let the jedi die off. To me at least…

    • JustAnotherOpinion

      Yeah, except that all falls apart when he has his conversation with Yoda. Remember, Yoda reminds him of what he told him In return of the Jedi? To teach what he has learned. And he follows up by letting Luke know that as a master and a teacher failure is part of the equation.

      So, Luke had to go off on island to be a hermit for years but after hearing this talk from Yoda start to have a change of heart. And all this begs the question, do you mean Yoda couldn’t have that talk with him umpteen years ago so that he didn’t go off on an island to become a hermit and die?

      Bad storytelling.

      • Aaron Miles Davis

        Luke shut himself off from the force… so maybe that’s why Yoda couldn’t reach him?

        • Ian Finnimore

          Not when he was having doubts about Kylo as a child – he could converse with Yoda during the time the flashback is set.

          The force ghosts of Obiwan, Yoda & Anakin were all available to brainstorm at that point but … Rian doesn’t know or care.

          • JustAnotherOpinion

            Bingo! Again, bad storytelling.

  • JZC

    I am not a hardcore fan. I grew up with them and I loved them the way you love Indiana Jones or Back to the Future.

    I found it incredibly boring. I fidgeted throughout the whole running time and caught myself even falling asleep a couple of times ( it was a morning show!) and found it overall…..dishonest.

    Dishonest in the sense that the PR machine is telling me it is great storytelling, when it is not.

    Dishonest in the sense that we are forced to believe buy the big machinery that the characters will be incredibly endearing or interesting when they are just OK. The cast ( except for maybe Oscar Isaac) does not have the gravitas the old cast did. Hell, even Hayden was a little more engaging (although not by much) .

    Dishonest in the sense that the filmmakers meddled with the tone just to more ‘Hip” or “millennial” by using self deprecating humor that has never seen before in the other films. It was a Saturday Night Live sketch at times. They almost break the fourth wall….seriously. I was shocked when I saw this after the Han Solo stand alone movie guys were let go for not adhering to what was supposed to be the tone of the franchise.

    Dishonest in the sense that this was not a filmmaker piece, but a marketing tool to sell toys and merch. They can still sell toys with a good filmmaker piece, but you can tell the studio meddled too much with it.

    Sometimes not so great movies are fun.

    This one wasn’t.

    I probably will not watch the next installment, just the same way I didn’t see Justice League because Hollywood is truly forgetting that a big blockbuster movie can also have a great story.

    • JustAnotherOpinion

      It was so bad, Mark Hamill fundamentally disagreed with the direction of his character. Funny how the people who are criticizing those of us who don’t like the movie have nothing to say about that.

      • ImmortalSix

        Check out his latest tweets – fans are misconstruing his comments.

        • Kindofabigdeal

          He can’t say anything bad about the Mouse or the movie or he won’t get to come back as a Force ghost.

        • NikolaiG

          No they are not. I read his comments. He’s just embarrassed. He got paid millions and I’m sure Disney is unhappy that he spoke so freely. I assure you, if Disney paid me $20 mill or whatever tomorrow, I might find the ability to refrain from speaking my mind on this movie as well. But that’s not likely.

    • Mad Barchetta

      You rattled off six of your opinions about the movie and argued that those opinions are equivalent of a factual assessment that the film itself is dishonest.

      Opinions facts.

  • JustAnotherOpinion

    Yep, Mark Hamill is wrong about it too. LOL.

  • Danny B

    I’m writing this not having read the other comments but i’m pretty positive that i’m in the minority when i say i agree with everything you’ve written.
    Now lets see if i was right…..

  • Victor Roa

    Yeah, I mean I’m getting a very episode 1 vibe on the backlash, and you know what it’s been 18 years since episode 1 and star wars is still standing, jar jar binks and all.

  • Israel

    “Why Hardcore Fans Are Wrong About Star Wars: The Last Jedi”

    Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

    • Joseph Jammer Medina


  • SaiyanHeretic

    Fuck speculation, fuck expectations, fuck expanded universes, fuck mythology, fuck canon.

    You know what’s canon? Luke and Leia made out in ESB. Lucas didn’t plan out shit! He had no idea of them being siblings until it actually came time to sit down and write the script for ROTJ. He was winging it the entire time, just like the old sci-fi serials that Star Wars was based on, and that’s the way it should be.

    I don’t need SW to be like the Marvel Cinematic Universe, nobody is going to do it like the MCU, hell the MCU isn’t even as interconnected as people like to think it is, and that’s fine. I just want entertaining Star Wars movies. TFA tickled my nostalgia in just the right way, then TLJ actually shocked me by doing things I never would have expected. Neither are perfect movies, but both have legitimate merits. In this day and age, when doomsayers claim that Hollywood is out of original ideas, I am excited that even the supposed evil Disney corporate Empire sees the value of going out on a limb.

    Now we’ve got all these sweaty losers freaking out about how the franchise has been ruined. “You blew it up, Disney, you maniacs!” Fandom culture truly is a hive of scum and villainy.

    • JustAnotherOpinion

      Both movies were bad. TFA was a New Hope remix. Heck, another (really big, bigger than the first two) Death Star. What a great and original idea. I didn’t see it getting blown up. Nope, never saw that coming.

      TLJ was unexpected alright. It had some great concepts and ideas that could have been explored and made into a great movie but that didn’t happen. I don’t care about Kylo Ren. He was never scary or bad@ss. He threw temper tantrums which were supposed to show he was unstable and therefore scary. Fail.

      He throws more hissy fits in TLJ. Rey in her second film is kicking everyone’s butt with a lightsaber. Fail. By comparison, Luke got his behind handed to him by Vader.

      Luke can face Sidious and Vader but turns hermit because nephew goes to the dark side because he feels neglected by mom and dad. Snoke, a nobody with no back story, seduces him. Real compelling stuff.

      Luke goes off to become a hermit. Rey shows up. Yoda appears. Luke has a change of heart. How convienent Yoda waited all this time to share with him the trials of being a Jedi master. Silly me for thinking they could have that conversation years ago before Luke ran off to become a hermit. Fail.

      Kylo is weaker than Rey but I can’t wait for Episode 9 to see if he can finally beat her. Fail.

      That’s just off the top of my head…..

    • Ian Finnimore

      So two wrongs make a right?

      Lucas ad libbed the rest of the story when the franchise exploded beyond a movie mixing sci fi & fairy tales. He had lots of ideas originally that he weaved into them all – Luke was going to have a sister if he ever managed to make more movies, it just wasn’t penned as Leia.

      The MCU is irrelevant to the argument – Starwars bred interlinking games, comics, TV shows – for nearly 40 years. You wouldn’t have surround sound without it or CGI most likely.

      It’s the way the original characters are portrayed in the new movies – disrespectful straw man versions of SUCCESSFUL heroes.

      Do NU-Starwars that’s fine – make it about anything you want but wiping out the original characters, spoiling their histories is just awful. Add that to an illogical script & people have every right to call out the movie.

      Harry Potter doesn’t portray the older characters as failures, Bilbo Baggins isn’t killed off to make way for Frodo – hell even 21 jump street has the original cast as bad asses.

      The inspiration at the end of TLJ usurps the Endor victory – NOW people will be inspired – not before – only Rians story is inspirational … Hack.

  • sojuig

    I’m not interested in Star Wars and I thought it was trash.

  • Matt Cave

    I actually really enjoyed the film. I don’t mind where they took the characters, the motivations behind it, and where they ended up.

    That said, my gripes are with simple plot holes.

    Why did Luke leave a map if he didn’t want to be found?
    Why couldn’t a Star Destroyer go a little faster to blow the shit out Leia’s ship? If it’s because Leia’s ship was smaller and lighter, why not send more TIE fighters out there as they seemed to be able to attack it successfully earlier?
    If Luke wanted to give the illusion of being on Crait at the end, why not show him with the green lightsaber considering Kylo and the audience just saw the blue one destroyed moments before?
    With Snoke being so powerful in the force, why couldn’t he notice or hear that a metal lightsaber was turning around 2 inches away from him on the arm of his metal throne?

    Some of these questions are more nitpick-y than others, but those are some of the questions I was left with, even after thoroughly enjoying what Rian Johnson provided us with. It’s almost as if he watched The Force Awakens, said “I don’t really like that movie or some of the story elements they set up,” and just did his own thing disregarding it.

    Other than that, I don’t mind the movie from an entertainment/character driven perspective. Luke was great, Mark’s performance of him was top notch, and all of the Rey/Kylo stuff was fantastic. I could’ve done without the entire Finn/Rose side-plot, and would have rather their story was made up of infiltrating and going undercover on the Star Destroyer and furthering the Finn/Phasma storyline throughout the film.

  • Deathstroke936

    So if you didn’t like it, it’s OK,… other than you don’t care about story telling… Sigh… Says the guy in his review that all reviews are biased, which is OK… but not OK if yours were predisposed to hate it…

    If you weren’t so defensive (or blind fanboy)… you could see that the parentage thing wasn’t a big deal until TFA made it one… No one cared about Phasma, we already had Boba Fett as a useless nobody… And Snoke was made an Emperor clone in TFA, except that in the OT he had meaning…

    Whether you like it or not… all these things were part of the saga now… We didn’t ask for them… TFA placed them there…and the TLJ has such (shitty) storytelling that all those plot points were expanded to … nothing except a boring movie…

    Seeing you bend over backwards to defend this crap is really amusing, but it’s not working… Like you said opinions are opinions and some of us are formed by our own biases… nothing factual here…

    The only factual thing I can gather here, is when it comes to your reviews…. You’re no Ebert…

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      Oh, trust me, I know. I never claimed to be Ebert.

      • I think it’s one thing to not like TLJ but to call it ‘shitty storytelling’ is ridiculous

        • Deathstroke936

          Ridiculous… ironic. When Jammer points out issues with tone (boring, forced humor) and pacing… (you know things related to story telling) and after two viewings the film is deserving of A+ (highest of grades) because such storytelling was grandiose, magnificent and ground breaking…

          So I delve in hyperbole … instead of pointing out the hypocrisy, I just use “shitty” storytelling instead of “mediocre, insipid or uninspiring…” storytelling… Good luck proving my own opinions being wrong to me…

          If you need to call me ridiculous… I wish I cared… Just as I wish this was a good A+ movie, instead of a shitty A+ movie…

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            Keep in mind, it was just me who gave it an A+ rating. It was an A+ movie to me, and that doesn’t make it a shitty A+ move to you, it makes it a C movie or B- movie, or whatever. To me, the good heavily outweighed the bad in a way that led me to that rating. You can use that in the future to gauge whether or not you trust what I have to say, but I’m not going to apologize for liking a movie a lot.

          • Deathstroke936

            Nor you should amigo… But your job is to review movies, shouldn’t perfect scores be reserved for “perfect” movies and not because you liked them a lot…???

            I have a long list of “shitty” movies that I love… just saying…

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            I don’t consider this a shitty movie. And you’re right, I don’t consider it a perfect movie, either. But the problems weren’t enough to take it away. I’m not so anal of a reviewer that I’m going to let what I find to be minor issues take away from the feelings of joy and catharsis it gives me. And these are things that I believe were done very well, in my opinion. To me, the most important aspect is what the movie makes me feel. I’ll definitely acknowledge when a movie has problems, and if it actually affects my enjoyment of the film, it will be reflected in the rating.

            Personally, that’s how my rating system works. As you said, I’m no Roger Ebert. Sure, I went to film school, but I’ve never enjoyed looking at films with the eye of someone like Kyle Smith. That’s not what I do. And since you know that, you can definitely use that information and use it to assess whether or not you think you can agree with a rating I give in the future.

            In fact, you should do that with at least a handful of reviewers, since no one will ever have opinions that line up with yours. Follow them, understand their biases and predispositions, and then adjust their ratings in your head to best apply to you.

    • NikolaiG

      Exactly. TFA created the expectations. It wasn’t as if people’s desires were random. TFA was like a guy in an orchestra who stands and raises his cymbals high with his arms outstretched …. and TLJ was as if that guy then, rather than crashing the cymbals together, just lowered his arms and sat down.

  • Lenin1959

    Luke DID act like he did in return of the Jedi – no OPINION, but FACT because it was in the movie and it was PACIFISM and TRUST and LOVE. HE was THE NEW HOPE. Fan movie episode VIII just IGNORED all that or DID NOT UNDERSTAND it. Luke trying to kill his sleeping nephew was DUMB and WRONG. Watch Return of the Jedi – and then you understand that Luke would have NEVER done this. NEVER. These new movies are EU – not canon. Disney’s extremely expensive fan films.

    • Ian Finnimore

      He signed on because of Lucas – he’s said in interviews that Lucas signed the original cast in like July or something & then the Disney sale was announced months later.

      It was probably a legal contract that didn’t specify Lucas was going to be involved – they’d never have imagined as Lucas has said nobody was allowed to make starwars except him … Then he changed his mind … probably due to Red Tails failure ..

      Its all over you tube as “sad Hamil” they signed on then it got changed ..

      Such a shame – Rogue One was pointless as we knew the plans were to end up with Leia but it was a great little war movie.. TLJ looks good .. that’s it .

      • Lenin1959

        True. Hamill even said he wasn’t happy with the idea they had for Luke (not GL’s ideas, but Disney’s) and Johnson had to “convince” him. I doubt he was really convinced that this was the way Luke Skywalker would ever become and act. Unfortunately, Disney’s servants are the ones in power, not Hamill.

        • Ian Finnimore

          Yup –
          Such a shame that the originals were duped so badly – probably with the exception of Harrison as hes a bit of a sour puss anyway wanting to kill Han previously.

          To me especially with Mark – the suits had convinced him that he “just didn’t get the concept” of TLJ as he’s “too old”. You can just see the manipulation – “think of these kids, it’s about them now ..”

          It’s a time in the limelight for older actors – you can see why they would acquiesce eventually, heck the money must be great!

          Mark has gotten his REAL opinion out however – he’s not dishonest so it’s much better than those who gave Terminator:Genysis their endorsement .. cough ..

  • Ian Finnimore

    So the movie dismissed all of the plot points from TFA like Snoke being powerful & who Reys parents might be, Phasma being anything of note or Finn being severely injured.
    It then continues to undermine the O/T cast by creating a straw man version of Luke Skywalker – attempted child murderer, failure & loser & forgets that when Kylo was a child Luke still had Yoda/Obi wan/Anakin to talk to & brainstorm how to approach the kids issues…

    The movie LOOKS good, the story direction was Rian doing what HE wanted to with other peoples storylines I think because he couldn’t pursue experienced users pondering dealing with young force users with uncontrollable power as he’d done similar in looper.

    The Last Jedi was Rian being disrespectful to any work that had gone before, any character development or story threads.

    Nobody is wrong in disliking a terrible script.

    Rian Johnson is an empty-headed animal-food-trough wiper. I fart in his general direction. His mother was a hamster, and father smelt of elderberries…

    • So the movie didn’t dismiss anything from the previous films, it answers them in beautifully complex ways. Snoke is extremely powerful, the story just illustrates the flaws that heroes and villains both have within them and Snoke’s flaw lead to his fate.

      Also Luke’s character is in fact very rich in TLJ and is a perfect continuation of the reckless kid who never completed his training in the OS. His inability to focus on the now and only look to the future is what lead to the creation of Kylo Ren, which felt human and real.

      You might not like the infallibility of the characters in TLJ (it’s tough to watch your hero’s fail) but it brings a weight and reality to these characters which is what elevates this film over most other blockbusters, while keeping within the world of star wars in a beautiful way.

      I can’t wait to see what JJ does next, he’s got big shoes to fill indeed.

  • Kronx

    Luke’s arc is incredibly complex, and I loved it. We talk about RotJ and him saving Vader, but that was because he felt good in Vader. He didn’t see good in Kylo. For a brief second Luke gave into fear and ignited his saber. He then realized he was wrong, but it was too late.

    If you’re a parent, you get it. because you’ve probably made a much smaller scale version of the same mistake. We misjudge our kids’ intent and morality because we project our fears onto them.

    It’s the same thing OB1 did in RotS. He didn’t see any good in Anakin and left him to BBQ on lava world. But he was ultimately wrong, too.

    Luke essentially wound up doing the same thing OB1 did, which is the basic human experience. We become our parents. When he says, “I’m not the last Jedi” that look on his face tells you everything. He’s not just saying Rey will carry on, he’s reaffirming his own belief and understanding of what being a Jedi means.

    I get why some people dislike the film. As wonderfully deep as it is, the Finn portion of the film not only makes the main plot drag, but it slowly derails the logic of the film by making everything take so long.

    It would’ve worked better if the rebels had been holed up in the abandoned base for the film instead of floating through space and somehow surviving.

    • Ian Finnimore

      But he had previous masters on force ghost speed dial at that point in time. Perhaps if we saw Kylo attack another student it might have seemed a little more Luke like to try & stop him but killing him in his sleep is just cowardly – plus it’s his sister’s kid.

      Everything is already set up for Luke not to act this way – everything he’s learned the fact that he has ghost buddies, other students & his sister/ brother in law to brainstorm with but the script just wanted angry Kylo so nope he’s gonna kill a kid…

      Most people wouldn’t smack a nephew so who the hell would stand over them with a sword?


      • Kronx

        Luke gave into fear for 2 seconds. He ignited his saber and then realized it was a mistake. That’s what humans do.

        But was it really a mistake?

        Kylo, instead of perhaps asking, “What’s up?” or “Is this a test?”, attacked Luke and massacred the school with his secret personal army. You don’t make that leap because your teacher made you nervous.

        Kylo has since then committed genocide, murdered his father and is now Space Hitler.

        Maybe Luke should have trusted his instincts.

        • Rad4Cap

          “That’s what humans do”

          Some humans don’t make the “mistake” of pulling out a gun and contemplating the murder of their sister’s child.

          You want to establish a character can make that “mistake”, then you have to lay the ground work for it. That was NOT done. In fact, it CONTRADICTS the ground work which HAS been laid for the character.

          Vader HAD committed mass murder on a GALACTIC scale for DECADES. And Luke STILL wanted to try to save him – DESPITE his ACTUAL and unfathomably evil sins.

          You have to EARN a change of THAT character. This film didn’t do that. That is why it is BAD writing – BAD storytelling.

  • SC Polt

    You want to talk about bad writing, let’s start with a title of this article that exudes condescension. A better title would have been “In Defense of The Last Jedi” or something other than “You are Wrong and Your Opinion is Wrong”. Honestly, the author here comes across as a spurned fanboy with his attitude toward fans of this franchise but fans OF HIS WEBSITE. There are many, many legitimate reasons to dislike this film and they have been relayed at nauseum.

    Jammer, this is how I know your position is wrong and that you are coming from a fanboy angle (which is fine). During your podcast you said that it was “Fantastic storytelling” that Rey’s parents came from nowhere. Then in the very next minute you said, “Well if her parents were someone special that also would have been fantastic storytelling.” What that tells me, is that no matter what choices the writer and director made, you were going to be behind it. So that’s why I can’t trust your opinion, especially in a piece like this.

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      In regards to the title, you’re absolutely right. I could have done a better job with that. That being said, I don’t recall saying: “Well if her parents were someone special that also would have been fantastic storytelling,” but even if I did, I think the point has to do with the execution and overall messaging of the story. To me the important thing was not the “what,” but the “how” or “why” behind it all.

      • SC Polt

        34:32 mark of the podcast. As an aside, Rey’s parentage was fine. At least they gave an answer. I didn’t mind that decision, but to your “how” or “why”, that’s my problem. We get no “how” or “why” as to Snoke. TFA built him up for an audience to ask who is he, what is motivations are, why is he doing this. And the movie felt like they didn’t have a good answer so they didn’t give one.

        I didn’t read any fan theories, so I had no pre-conceived notions of who Snoke should be, but you can’t build up big questions and then be shocked when you fail to provide any answer, much less an insufficient one.

        • Joseph Jammer Medina

          Re: Snoke, I loved the fact that he was a means to develop Kylo Ren into the villain he becomes at the end of the film. Rather than focus on the boring, old, all-evil head of the “Empire,” they shifted to something more gray and interesting. Kylo Ren to me is much more interesting than a standard black and white villain. Of course, that’s just my opinion.

          • SC Polt

            That’s fine, and I sort of agree. However, giving us a backstory or some explanation of who Snoke is, his motivations, etc. does not prevent the writer from killing him off or have Kylo take his place. It would’ve added more depth. It would’ve been better if TFA never introduced Snoke at all.

          • ImmortalSix

            The movies didn’t provide any backstory on Yoda, Obi-Wan, Mace Windu and countless others – they were introduced and we accepted them. I don’t know that TFA ever gave us anything to think that we would understand who Snoke was or how he came into power… would a backstory on Snoke been nice? Sure. But I think there is an over-reaction by many to say it is required… obviously he wasn’t that important given that he is dead now and was used as a piece of the story to antagonize Kylo and make him even a more unhinged, evil villain to deal with in IX. If you would have had a backstory on Snoke and then he was killed, many would have screamed that his backstory was a waste of time…

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            I actually think differently (i know, surprise!). If they had taken the time to develop Snoke, I think fans would have been even more upset that they put all that time into developing him, only to kill him off immediately after.

          • Rad4Cap

            There is a difference between ‘developing’ a character and providing SOME context for him. There is NONE provided for Snoke. He has a title, nothing else. And even the meaning of that title is undefined, since the realm he is ‘leader’ of is completely undefined.

            That is one of the major problems of this trilogy. It doesn’t do world-building.

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            I will agree that world-building isn’t the focus. In polar opposite to the prequels, which — in my opinion — had too much world-building, and almost no character. George Lucas is more of a Tolkien than Philip Pullman when it comes to storytelling.

          • Rad4Cap

            “world-building isn’t the focus”

            Except the new trilogy needed SOME building of its NEW world. And we got NONE.

            ALL stories need to be set somewhere, in SOME specific context of place, time, and action. There is NO context whatsoever here. In the Original Trilogy, there was a basic setup – a galaxy-spanning Empire, ruled by an Emperor, which had just gone full dictatorship near the beginning of the first film.

            Can you even identify THOSE basic types of features about the new trilogy?


            THAT is BAD storytelling.

  • TheOct8pus

    I actually really enjoyed how this movie gave a big middle finger to Star Wars and Star Wars fans in general. Some scenes were tedious, and some sub-plots unnecessary, but all the big things were unexpected and therefore satisfying for me.

    I liked how they subverted expectations by making Luke Skywalker scared and insecure, and feeling like he needed to kill Kylo Ren in his sleep, or that Snoke was offed halfway through the movie, or that Rey’s parents were just space crackheads. I thought Luke’s “trick” at the end of the film was a pleasant surprise too.

    One of the most common complaints I’ve heard are that people wanted an “epic” showdown between the Jedi and the Sith at the end of the movie: Luke vs. Snoke, Rey vs. Kylo, and all we got was a magic trick. To those people I say: It’s been done (see Return of the Jedi). If you want an epic, satisfying final fight, go watch The Matrix, or some Marvel movie. Everybody just wants to see a fight on screen these days: punch, punch, kick, kick, slash, blah blah blah….it’s getting boring. Even highly anticipated sci-fi superhero movies like Infinity War all amount to punch, kick, blast etc….at least this movie tried to do something different….to varying levels of success.

    • Ian Finnimore

      “I actually really enjoyed how this movie gave a big middle finger to Star Wars and Star Wars fans in general. ”

      Great marketing strategy – the fans that built interest in the franchise – screw em all ?

      Nah … Make any choices you want but not at the expense of original cast members – surely it’s 101?

      • TheOct8pus

        Sadly, they have to move away from the OT, and they’ll have to write out the original cast somehow. I wonder how they’ll handle Leia….they had plenty of opportunities to kill her off in TLJ, but they opted to use all the footage of her they shot instead.

      • Rad4Cap

        In regard to TO8, the “satisfaction” he derives from this big FU one can only say:

        “Some men just want to watch the world burn”.

        The destruction – the ‘newness’ of it – gives them a rush. That is their ‘soul’.

  • SC Polt

    The poor story-telling comes from the fact that the audience was never shown Kylo as truly dark, truly evil, or even that powerful. He comes across as bratty, not evil. Kylo poses absolutely no threat as we have seen that Finn holds his own against Kylo in TFA and so does Rey, two people with no training. A bratty millennial without any power does not provide enough motivation for Luke to give up being a Jedi. The whole thing becomes hollow.

    And how can it be good storytelling when the movie opens with the Rebellion is trying to escape the First Order (besides just minutes before blowing up their most powerful weapon as shown in TFA) and the movie ends with….the Rebellion trying to escape the First Order. Kylo and Rey don’t change, they merely return to their respective corners. Nothing happens in this movie.

  • Unc Sam

    JJM – how about that some viewers didn’t enjoy the movie because it was ponderously slow, some of the key plot points didn’t make any sense and it trampled over the integrity of earlier movies in the series.

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      Good question. I’m absolutely open to the first half of what you said. Definitely, there are some fair issues to bring up. That being said, I wouldn’t agree that it tramples over the integrity of earlier movies. But that’s a conversation worth having, for sure. The things I’m mostly rallying against here are those who are upset because the film didn’t match up with their head canon.

      • Unc Sam

        It was also disappointing that all the hard work that the Rebels fought for in the OT was undone with no explanation given. Out of respect for those films we deserved some kind if insight about how Snoke was influencing Ben Solo, just where Snoke came from and how the FO came about.

        It took Palpatine 3 films to manipulate and corrupt Anakin so for Ben to be turned off screen with no insight given is cheap, it lacks substance.

        With regards to the integrity question, it rather turns the premise of Episode 4 on its head. No need for an elaborate plan to fly down a trench and bullseye a torpedo into the reactor, all that’s required is to just lightspeed a ship into the Death Star – problem solved.

        It’s not nitpicking, I think when you commit to make a series of films the things that make it a series need to hold firm, whether that’s a continuance of characters or organisations or locations or events. Otherwise you might as well just make standalone unconnected movies and not worry about continuity.

        • NikolaiG

          In OT? How about the fact that TLJ starts the moment TFA ends, and yet blowing up Starkiller base seems to have had ZERO impact on the First Order? Empire didn’t begin until 3 years after ANH.

  • ImmortalSix

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion – I loved this movie and firmly believe it is the best of the saga. I’ve seen the movie three times now and am amazed at how so many “fans” are lambasting the film. This is the internet age and no one appears to be happy unless they are complaining or spouting off on how upset they are because their speculation or theory failed to come to fruition. That is the beauty of a Star Wars film… talking, discussing, debating, theorizing and then sitting back and accepting the direction the film takes. I am generally not a fan of the prequels but each of the movies had pieces of IMO “pure Star Wars” like Qui-Jon’s journey, Yoda fighting Dooku, and Order 66. But it also had Jar Jar and horrible dialogue which led to average at best acting. But I accepted it as I enjoyed bringing Star Wars back into my life. I saw Star Wars before it was Episode IV in the theater as a young boy.

    I completely disagree that this movie was “world-DISINTEGRATING” as evidenced by the final scene where the stable boy on Canto Bight nonchalantly grabbed the broom with the Force and looked off into the night sky raising the broom like a lightsaber longing for his own adventure some day (with his Rebel ring thanks to Rose). The Force goes beyond the Skywalker bloodline and is a hope for
    all living beings to wield in a way to better the galaxy.

    I felt the Luke storyline was beautifully done, maybe not what I expected, but I understand that his reluctance to live up to the “legend” of being Luke Skywalker after failing Ben Solo as a teacher drove him to exile himself and believe that the Jedi Order may have been part of the problem rather than the solution. As he noted, at the height of the Jedi Order’s power, Darth Sidious grew right underneath their noses. If several Jedi Masters were oblivious to the rising threat then the Jedi
    are fallible and his thought – maybe not needed and it was time for the Jedi to end. After closing himself off from the Force, Luke needed the assistance of Yoda, Chewie, Rey and R2 to help him remember his place and why he needed to return to assist the Resistance (Rebels) and his sister in preventing total domination by Kylo and the First Order (Empire). He came to recognize that his own story was a beacon of hope for all of the galaxy. By becoming one with the Force to “project” himself to confront Kylo and provide a distraction to let the few remaining Rebels to escape was his swan song – a way to close his story and further set up his own Legend to inspire others across the galaxy.

    I’ll say it again – best film (not movie) of the saga IMHO.

  • Claudio

    To invested in the mythology and that’s why LucasFilm couldn’t adapt extended universe storys? Have you clowns ever seen a Marvel movie?

  • CrystalClearTruth

    Anyone who understands how to craft a story, agrees that this is not a real Star Wars movie. And those that don’t know how to articulate that, just know something is off with this movie. It is a giant slap in the face to generations of Star Wars fans. It’s ruined the franchise completely for me. I just don’t care any more.

  • Kindofabigdeal

    I got caught up in the comments that I forgot to make my own.
    I can tell a good star wars story from a bad, or incoherent one.
    KOTOR had two very good stories that felt like the OT, but still played upon the cooler stuff of the prequels and told it’s own story.
    Same with The Force Unleashed. While I thought the idea of an over powered Force user swayed from established canon and lore it still told a compelling story that let me forgive that. Not to mention the gameplay was pretty fun.
    I did not feel any of that with TLJ. There is definitely something wrong, and I don’t think it’s fanboys sad devotion to those ancient mythos is the problem.

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      Any idea what it is that’s making you not feel it like you did with KotOR or The Force Unleashed?

      • Film Fillet

        Joseph – the title of this article, to me at least, is condescending. It implies fact. When it should consider that we ‘may’ be wrong, or ‘might be wrong’. Storytelling is always about the ‘whys and wherefores’. Always. No one would complain about Luke’s arc if we knew why he changed so dramatically. Show us. Tell us. We have to surmise. And we have, based on what we have been SHOWN previously. Now we’re being told ‘that’s just the way it is’ and if we don’t accept it, it’s because we’re disgruntled fans. I’m a casual fan – but this film had more holes than a Swiss cheese.

  • Think Foryourself

    Just wanted to say that I agree with you 110% as do a lot of people (obviously). My close friends and I are also SW junkie nerds and could quote the movies backwards for you. But most of us don’t really comment on that many message boards so our voices are obviously drowned out by those that do. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that there are many who agree with you.

    I loved it. I loved the risks it took. I loved that, for the first time in forever, I honestly had no idea WTF was about to happen from scene to scene. And, yes, a majority of it made sense. I was angry about how Luke acted most of the time. But was it possible based on what he’d been through? Yes. I still wish he wasn’t so broken but a great movie will challenge your preconceptions. It’s supposed to.

  • Mad Barchetta

    “No longer do they go to a film wanting to be surprised. No, they go to a film wanting their own personal expectations of what should happen, to be fulfilled. Fans know what they want, and when those desires aren’t met, they get upset.”

    This sums up all the butthurt quite well. That’s my opinion of most of the complaining. Well said, sir!

  • Gaaamin_It_Up

    Maybe someone already mentioned this, but one of the biggest points to make here is that Disney isn’t making these movies for the hardcore fans. They’re making these movies for the Disney brand. One of my least favorite parts of TLJ was the humor, but they don’t care, because they want kids and parents to laugh and fill the seats. Big running dogs with floppy ears and cute faces causing a ruckus, I’m sure you’ll see that stuffed animal somewhere on a shelf soon. Ending the film on a shot of a hopeful little boy…guess what, almost every little kid in my theater ran out screaming in excitement “I LOVED IT” while their dad was mildly straight-faced pondering his thoughts. It’s a Disney movie now, and it’s something the fans (including myself) will have to come to terms with. Just leave the Mary Poppins moments to Yondu.

  • Behemothrex

    If you let someone that has never seen a Star Wars movie watch this, besides the mild confusion about characters, there would still be the major confusion or why the hell are they doing this. Well that plot went no where, or that whole scene was pointless. The story was in shambles.

  • David

    You don’t have to be too invested in your own theories for it to be clear that Disney doesn’t have a plan for these trilogies like Lucas did. They are just making it up as they go along. Abrams created a bunch of mysteries, because that’s what Abrams always does, and then Johnson did nothing with those mysteries because, apparently, they didn’t interest him.

    You don’t have to be too invested in how you think characters should act to find Luke’s feelings about ending the Jedi to be stupid. Like if we get rid of all cops, there wont be any crime? Bad people who do bad things don’t exist because of Jedi. Ben Solo couldn’t have been recruited by Snoke even Luke never trained him? Ben Solo wasn’t born because Luke was a Jedi. I think Luke could have recognized there would be evil people who want use any power at their disposal to control the universe, regardless of whether there are Jedi. Jedi’s are philosophers. Yoda or Kenobi didn’t pop in at any point in the last decade to tell him how stupid his position was?

    Good story telling is repeating scenes from Empire and Jedi but with an unexpected twists? Good story telling is abandoning set up from all the movies before? If you want surprise for surprise’s sake then look somewhere other than long running franchise. Good story telling is consistent with itself and this movie is not consistent with TFA, let alone the original trilogy, with the characters or the tone. I again attribute this to their lack of plan..

    I think that the reveal about Rey’s parents is a red herring. I think they are trying to mislead fans away from a bigger reveal. Maybe Boba Fett’s neighbor’s best friend’s cousin knew a guy who’s name sound like Jedi had a daughter that looked like Rey? I’m calling it, you heard it here first folks!

    • NikolaiG

      Let’s hope so.

  • Holy shit do you have it all wrong.

    Rian Johnson seems to have a serious misunderstanding of what Star Wars is on a deeply fundamental level. I have no doubt that he’s a huge fan, but his perception of the lore, history and best parts of this franchise are grossly misaligned with that of the majority of fans.

    With that said, I went in with every single intention to love this film. If I fell into any of the categories you listed below I wouldn’t have enjoyed TFA and I did, it mostly made sense, and it was very ominous and vague about the things that didn’t, but I was willing to wait until now to get an explanation. Not only was no explanation to anything given, but every interesting plot thread and character was destroyed. Rey had ZERO growth in this film. She’s just as confused and fucked as she was when she started, as is Kylo and everyone else. Minus tons of rebels dying as well as Snoke, it’s like literally nothing fucking happened.

    The entire film is a fucking mess, it doesn’t make any sense what so ever. And I’ll never understand what it is that people are seeing is soo great about it. I had zero expectations going in, I was ready to accept whatever Rian’s vision was, as long as it made sense and it added to what came before. Instead I had to experience something that was the complete opposite of those things, it was nonsensical, and completely negated what had come before in an almost disrespectful way. Soo much so that it’s tainted my love of all the previous films because it undermined and shit on soo many fascinating characters and plot threads.

    Then entire film was a HUGE fuck you to JJ. Rian must have sat down and literally said what can I do to completely undo everything that JJ and Larry worked soo hard to establish. When Luke was astral projecting himself I couldn’t enjoy ANY of the emotional moments at that point, because the entire time I was racking my brain wondering why he had dyed and trimmed his hair/beard on the way to Crait and how in the hell he was using a lightsaber that was destroyed 10mins previous. Something Kylo didn’t even seem to notice, even though the ENTIRE previous film he instantly recognized it and spent the entire film chasing it while telling everyone that it belongs to him.

    Rian Johnson can eat an entire bowl of feces. And so can anyone who liked this crap fest of a garbage film. I hope to god JJ returns the fuck you and has Episode 9 begin with Luke waking up from a terrible nightmare where his sister was the last daughter of Krypton, the laws of gravity apply only to bombs in space, lightspeed is only NOW used as a weapon, Snoke is so powerful he can convert Jedi from the other side of the galaxy but can’t hear rattling metal 3 ft from his head, he attempts to murder his best friend’s/twin sister’s innocent child, drinks some salty alien tit milk and then takes on the first order armada and Kylo single handedly as a hologram.

    Fuck you. Fuck Rian Johnson. And Fuck everyone who liked this film.

    • Rad4Cap

      “I’ll never understand what it is that people are seeing is soo great about it.”

      People today are simply not interested in logical plot progression by consistent character actions. Integration of theme, plot, and characterization are meaningless to them. Integrity – to principles or anything else – is foreign to them. The emotion of the moment is what both feeds and drives them. They are like junkies simply looking for a fix. So long as they get an instance they think is ‘cool’, they’re happy.

      In fact, when things are shown NOT to make sense, to have NO logic, to just be random – ie the OPPOSITE of everything that Star Wars stood for from the beginning – that REAFFIRMS for them THEIR philosophy. You’ll note that they REALLY like this film because it is NOT what Star Wars has offered in the past. It is precisely because it SPITS in the face of all the prior SW movies that they DO like it.

      They like it PRECISELY because, philosophically, it is the ANTI-Star Wars.

      ” Rian must have sat down and literally said what can I do to completely undo everything”

      That is EXACTLY what he did. Apparently Lucasfilm wanted the second Episode to be Empire – but NOT Empire. And Rian said: “I can do that! I’ll give you Empire, but I’ll reverse EVERYTHING. Genius, right?!”

      I’ve noted elsewhere, Rian used Empire as a roadmap, and followed it exactly BACKWARDS. He took Empire and REVERSED every story beat and every characterization. There is NO originality in this film WHATSOEVER.

      This isn’t just in one or two places. It is EVERY detail in the film.

      Crait is Hoth. But instead of being in the first act, we get the reverse – it’s in the last act.

      Instead of fleeing FROM Hoth, we get the reverse – they flee TO Crait

      Instead of powdery snow, we get the reverse – hard salt.

      Instead of a Rebel canon shooting at the Empire, we get the reverse – a First Order canon shooting at the Resistance

      Instead of snow creatures being kept out of the base, we get the reverse – crystal creatures brought into the base.

      Instead of “I know” said to a lover as a relationship climax, we get the
      reverse – “I know” said to a stranger as character introduction.

      Instead of a fast paced chase FROM Hoth, we get the reverse – a slow speed chase TO Crait

      Instead of lightspeed as the way to escape the empire, we get the reverse – lightspeed will get them caught by the First Order

      Instead of the roguish scoundrel Han getting the Leader Leia to ‘lighten up’, we get the reverse – the tough Leader teaching the rogue scoundrel to follow orders.

      Instead of a working (mining) city in the clouds, the solution to the hyperspace problem is to be found in its opposite – a resort (gambling) city on the ground.

      Instead of being betrayed by the suave leader of that city, we get the reverse – they are betrayed by a stuttering captive of that city.

      Instead of Boba Fett chasing Han and Leia, we get the reverse – Finn and Rose are brought TO Phasma.

      Instead of keeping Han and Leia alive, we get the reverse – Finn and Rose are to be executed

      Instead of Yoda wanting the Jedi to return, we get the opposite – Luke wanting the Jedi to die.

      Instead of Yoda training Luke to be a Jedi, we get the reverse – Luke refusing to train Rey as a Jedi.

      Instead of a Dark tree cave, we get the reverse – a Dark sea cave.

      Instead of Luke being shown in his father (that their destinies are related), we get the reverse – Rey is her own past and future. There is no destiny,
      there is the opposite – making one’s own path.

      Instead of Luke fighting Vader and triumphing by turning Vader, we get the reverse – Luke evading a fight with Kylo and failing by not turning Kylo

      Instead of a climactic battle, we get the reverse – an anti-climactic non-battle

      Instead of leaving the story on a cliff-hanger, we get the reverse – a conclusion to the whole story bringing it full circle back to Episode 1

      The list goes on and on – even throwing in the final Emperor sequence from Return of the Jedi, ALSO reversed:

      Instead of Luke not wanting to kill a mass murderer, we get the reverse – Luke wanting to kill an innocent child

      Instead of a connection between Luke and Vader AFTER their relationship is revealed, we get the reverse – a connection between Kylo and Rey which MAKES their relationship.

      Instead of a futuristic technological throne room, we get the opposite – an old style flash gordon throne room

      Instead of the Emperor being killed by Vader at the end of a lightsaber fight,
      we get the reverse – Snoke killed before the lightsaber fight

      Instead of Vader betraying the Emperor out of love of his son, we get the reverse – Kylo betraying Snoke out of hatred of Snoke

      Instead of Vader and Luke fighting each other, we get the opposite – Kylo and Rey fighting together

      Instead of a clash of lightsabers, we get the reverse – no lightsaber duel ever

      Instead of Vader turning to the Light, we get the reverse – Kylo going fully to the Dark.

      Instead of all of this being the CLIMAX (of Return), we get the reverse – all this is in the middle act of TLJ

      And the denouement is the reverse of the Anakin in Phantom:

      Instead of a
      force sensitive young slave boy who races speeders, we get the reverse – a force sensitive young slave
      boy who tends racing animals.

      And don’t even get me started on the THEME and PLOT-THEME – and the story’s failure to support them at ALL.

      So the film DOES make “sense” – the same way a mirror image makes “sense”. It is a completely UNORIGINAL, FRACTURED IMITATION of a GOOD film.

      It is the ANTI-Empire Strikes Back.

      • NikolaiG

        Well said.

  • The moment when they reveal that Luke was just astral projecting himself from Ach-To, the audience applauded like it was some sort of genius and epic twist…

    And it was in that precise moment when I realized I no longer understand the world.

  • I disagree with you, I spend time providing ample evidence and reasoning as to why I think you’re wrong, and then you delete my comment? You’re pathetic.

  • NikolaiG

    A condescending piece that misses the point. The mythology bit is so off base I can’t even respond. It’s irrelevant. No one is invested in his/her own theory. We just wanted the issues raised in TFA to be addressed. Why did Luke’s light saber call out to Rey? Why did she see scenes from Luke’s life in her vision? Why did Obi Wan speak to her? Why was she such an incredible Millennium Falcon pilot? We got not a hint of the reasons for any of these things, and her vision was the central character moment of TFA. It is the second act of a trilogy, after all, though you’d never know it by watching TLJ.

    How Luke should act is not some random opinion. It is based on Luke’s prior behavior. For example, he refused to kill Vader (an evil man who had killed millions) because Luke thought there was some good in him, and he could be redeemed. Yet he raised his light saber against his nephew because he thought he had ‘some’ bad in him and might one day kill people? Makes no sense. Luke would abandon his sister and the cause for decades? Doesn’t make sense. Luke would leave a key pointing to his whereabouts, but then when found would tell Rey, “Go away!” That’s really nonsensical bad story telling.

    I assure you I care about story telling and it is there where TLJ falls hard, mostly due its failure to characterize Luke in credible fashion, and its utter failure to characterize Rey in any way at all, leaving her as a mysterious all-powerful being who knows how to use her powers expertly without training beyond one meditation session.

    Finally, I cannot recall a movie in the past that was received poorly or with mixed sentiment by a large segment of fans (2/3 of them based on Metacritic), where in response the media came firing back at them, making lots of ad hominem attacks and generally just trying to push back the tide and delegitimize the complaints. It makes one wonder what is behind it.

    • Rad4Cap

      To your last point, the Ghostbusters remake/reboot/whatever that was, was ‘defended’ in the same way.

      As to what’s behind it? Philosophy. When you attack their likes and dislikes, they feel you are attacking them. That is the underlying philosophy. It is not a conspiracy (though there can be coordinated efforts by the like-minded). It is simply the predominant ‘intellectual’ philosophy. And they see themselves ‘under siege’ when people don’t accept it. So they lash out at what they call the ‘haters’ (a term which is a flashing alarm, alerting you to someone who has abandoned reasoning and is proceeding from their emotions – and projecting THEIR emotionalist philosophy onto everyone else).

      They are simply vying for emotional supremacy over the competing and incompatible emotions of others.

      • NikolaiG

        It is true that Disney has a lot at stake and that they take out advertising in publications that review the movie. That does create a potential conflict of interest that amateur reviewers do not have (unless they also happen to be Disney employees).

  • surethom

    Im Not a Hardcore Fan & even I got bored the first Hour & Half, it was so slow apart from the Space battle. JJ Abrams should have cut 25 minutes they maybe it would have worked. Slso there was Zero need for Luke to get & drink the Milk.

Joseph Jammer Medina is an author, podcaster, and editor-in-chief of LRM. A graduate of Chapman University's Dodge College of Film and Television, Jammer's always had a craving for stories. From movies, television, and web content to books, anime, and manga, he's always been something of a story junkie.