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– by Campbell Clark

The Last Jedi has come and gone, and we already know just how much it is dividing fans. Even here at LRM there is a battle occurring with Jammer leading one side of the argument and David leading the other. I have tried to stay fairly neutral so far as I wait to see the movie a second time. If one side is the dark and one the light, I guess I am the grey in the middle, for the moment.

I think that as a writer, one of my many flaws is that whenever I watch a movie, unless it is perfect, I always have ideas for what little things I would change about the script in order to improve the movie. I am not talking a complete rewrite here, more like a script doctor. I guess many fans do this, especially those who have a passion to write their own stories. I have written in the past alternate scripts for The Phantom Menace and The Matrix Reloaded, just for fun to post in discussion boards.

Ultimately here are the key points I would have changed in The Last Jedi, which for me, would have improved the film, whilst still keeping the basic outline of Rian Johnson’s vision. By making these changes, Rian Johnson would have also kept the fan base much happier, or at least given them far less to complain about.

The Slow Chase through Space

For me, it would have been far better to have had the Resistance running through several light speed jumps. Let me explain, and…I know that this makes it even more like Battlestar Galactica (and we know one or two of you hate it enough as is), but hey ho.

Have the Resistance discover the First Order can track them through hyper space, and have their fighters attack and the resistance defend, but they have to keep jumping to light speed for respite. They still have limited fuel and they can only stay in light speed for so long, every time they drop out of hyper space, the FO attack and the Resistance have to defend as best they can until they can spool up another jump. Each time the FO attack, the Resistance lose more and more defensive capabilities and ships.

Ultimately, it results in the same effect as we got, but it would be more exciting and the light speed moments would enable the quieter character moments. You could have Poe slowly losing all his fighter crews after each attack. You don’t have to have Leia be in a coma, and just get rid of Admiral Holdo. I would have had Finn be the one to have his ideas on what the resistance truly means changed as he initially tries to escape as we see in the movie, but ends up having to watch as the fleet is slowly destroyed. He could still have been involved with Rose, but all aboard the ship as she struggles to keep it running and he is assigned to help her. She could still discuss the many people profiteering from the constant war, she could have talked about Canto Bight even as being where she grew up, maybe even as a flashback to when she was a kid.

It could also have been the Resistance’s plan to arrive at Crait (the salt planet) as happened in the movie, but have it be a currently used Resistance base, somewhere that they could plan to make a final stand against the First Order with troops and ships already there.

I guess for me, the weakest part of the movie was the storyline of Canto Bight and the character of DJ. To me he was a pointless character in a pointless plot line and it would have allowed for less time on the planet. It would have also allowed for plenty of star battles and kept the locations down to only 2 different planets in the movie, Ach-To and Crait. I think this would have streamlined the movie, kept the pace even faster, and allowed Finn to have some time with Poe, because as things stand, those two have hardly shared any screen time together yet across both movies now.

Supreme Leader Snoke

I truly believe that Rian Johnson should have taken on the responsibility of explaining who Snoke was. I have heard many people compare Snoke to how little we knew of the Emperor in the OT, but for me there are very real differences. The Emperor we knew from the OT had used Darth Vader to aid him in hunting down and destroying the Jedi order and ultimately had persuaded Anakin Skywalker to join the Dark side of the Force. There was little mention of Sith and the Republic, but we did then get a mythology built up by the Prequel Trilogy which clearly defined a set of rules. One master, one apprentice. So where was this Snoke character 30 years prior, he must have been around for him to be so powerful with the Dark Side and surely that would have presented as much of a threat to Darth Sidious as the Jedi did?

With the extra time we have gained by cutting out Canto Bight, I would have had a scene where Rey questions Luke about who this Snoke is and Luke relays the information as best as he can from what he has discovered. He would surely have consulted with Yoda, Obi Wan or Anakin about this before the incident with Ben Solo which caused him to shut himself away from the Force?

He could simply explain to Rey that Snoke was the former master of Darth Sidious, defeated and destroyed by Sidious (So he thought) who went on to claim dominion over the Sith. Snoke was able to transfer his spirit into another life form, using up that persons life force until the body was too badly damaged and decayed that he had to find a new host (Remember that Palp’s says he learned how to cheat death?). While the Emperor was rising to power, Snoke was in hiding trying to re establish himself in the unknown regions of space, but he was too afraid to take on the might of the Empire, especially with Darth Vader as an apprentice to his former pupil.

However, when Sidious and Vader perished, it allowed him an opportunity to take the remnants of the Empire and form them into the First Order. Hearing of the existence of Ben Solo, Snoke thought that the grandson of Darth Vader would make a perfect apprentice for him. Snoke could sense the darkness growing in Solo and Luke felt powerless to stop it. The conflict between Ben and Luke could have been shown more as Luke progressed towards the point he almost turned to the darkside himself to prevent Ben from becoming a new Darth Vader. Rian Johnson is right that Snoke revealing who he was to Rey when in his throne room would have been silly. But not to Luke. Luke could easily have explained all this as he tells Rey about the night Ben turned completely and why he blames himself.

It practically writes itself in a similar way to how Ben explains things to Luke in Return of the Jedi for me.

It would also leave the possibility of Snoke returning in a new body in episode 9, should JJ wish that to happen? If not, it doesn’t really matter as once again Snoke/Plaguis has been destroyed by his own apprentice and lost all his power, it is not Snoke’s story. Again though, I think fans would be quite satisfied with Snoke and his death, had they simply filmed one scene of Luke explaining what he knows to Rey.

Leia’s Force Powers

One thing and one thing alone here, I don’t like Superman Leia. Now don’t get me wrong, if anything I think both JJ Abrams and Rian Johnson should have shown Leia use the Force more than they did. It has always felt weird to me that for several years after Return of The Jedi, Luke wouldn’t have trained, or just taught Leia a few things about the Force.

Maybe she rejected the Jedi life and stopped her training? The point is that although I was happy to see Leia use the Force, I was not that happy with how it was done. What would have been far more dramatic IMO, would be for Leia to rescue several of the crew who were blasted out to space rather than she herself. If Rian was determined to have her in the Coma for Poe’s development, he could have had the strain of the event take her strength from her. Although I’d argue that Admiral Holdo and Leia’s roles could have been merged into one as I said above.

Rey (AKA Mary Sue)

All I’d be looking for here as a fan would be an explanation as to why she is so powerful. Snoke hints at why by saying that he suspected the light side would rise against Ben, he just expected it to be Luke Skywalker. All they would have to do is have Luke explain that he doesn’t understand why she is so strong for someone so untrained and then have Snoke explain it in a little more detail, after all, Luke has shut himself off from the Force, Snoke has not. Or have Ben Solo explain it to her after the parent thing, that Snoke said the Force finds balance, that a light side as strong as him would emerge to challenge him, but it doesn’t have to be that way if she joins him etc etc. It would be a very small change and hardly affect Rian’s vision at all, but it would satisfy one of the fans biggest complaints from both movies, that of Rey being a Mary Sue. I don’t need to know the minute details and it leaves it open for JJ to explore if he wishes in 9. It still boils down to The Force did it, but we have accepted that explanation many times before.

Conclusion

Of course we could go into much more detail if we were properly doctoring the script. But these are all changes which would have helped the overall movie go from average to great In my opinion. I do feel like this is all in keeping with the tone Johnson went for, which I am not going to argue about here, it’s been done to death already.

It’s also the reason why despite me leaning more towards liking the movie now, it will never be as good as I think it could have been had Johnson had someone to just take another quick pass before he shot it. I know some fans want the entire thing changed, but for me it just needed one or two small tweaks to really propel it to another level.

As always let us know what you think of this in the comments, perhaps you hate what I propose here, perhaps you agree, just remember that these are just my personal musings and the movie we got is the only movie we are ever going to get.

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  • WTFITBS

    OMFG, there was nothing wrong with this film. What the hell is wrong with some folks!!!????!!!

    • CrystalClearTruth

      I bet you aren’t old enough to have experienced the original trilogy. That would explain your comment.

      • Straight to the insults, no foreplay?

        • CrystalClearTruth

          that wasn’t an insult. It’s a fact that the younger generation likes these movies and the older crowd do not.

          • Well I’m 40 almost and grew up with the OT and as I say I’m not dead against this movie. I liked it but felt a few things could be tweaked. I am not sure where you are getting your statistics from. In my friends group the 2 oldest of us, one being me are the only positive ones and those younger are against us.

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            I grew up with OT and adore this film.

          • CrystalClearTruth

            that’s great. you are in the minority

          • Joseph Jammer Medina

            Why ask a question when you plan on giving closed-off answer?

      • WTFITBS

        Yeah dude, I’m old enough. If the directors and George Luas are telling folks to let go of the Expanded Universe stuff (novels, video games, etc.) and just enjoy these film s for what they are then the fans should except it and look at it for what it is stead of what they perceive it should be.

    • Are you Joseph Medina? Lol

      Hey I know what you are saying, but the 4 points above didnt work for me completely Sorry

    • axebox

      I disagree that there was nothing wrong, but it was still a very good movie. Better than any others that weren’t the originals. I think people are just trying to justify their hate for the film, which is very normal if you don’t like something. If you do you’ll try to justify your love of it.

      • WTFITBS

        People are asking for certain things to be explained and wrapped up in a pretty ribbon and bow in this one film. It’s a trilogy for Christ Sakes. The third film hasn’t even started production yet and we don’t know what things were intentionally left out to be answered later on. I’m not saying I love the film but it was solid and had no glaring issues nor did present any problems with the mythos contained in the previous episodes.

      • People will complain and hate everything.
        “They made The Force Awakens to much like A New Hope! I hate it.
        ” They made The Last Jedi nothing like Empire Strikes Back! I hate it!”
        “They stopped making Star Wars! I hate it!”

        Its an oxymoronic world out there. I equate it to an example I put forth in the past. If you painted beautiful women on the noses of airplanes today you would be accused of being sexist. If you then instead painted everything BUT women you would STILL be accused of being sexist because you had excluded them. Like I said oxymoronic.

        • Rad4Cap

          ” They made The Last Jedi nothing like Empire Strikes Back!”

          LOL. Anyone who says that REALLY wasn’t paying ANY attention.

    • Rad4Cap

      OMFG, there WAS a LOT wrong with this film. What the hell is wrong with some folks!!!???!!!

  • TheOct8pus

    Sure, fair points, but you’re just torturing yourself with all the “what ifs”…. the slow space chase reminded me Whale Wars – a show about really slow sea chases

    • Yes we are, but this is what we do, talk about movies a lot. It’s what I enjoy 😉

    • Kindofabigdeal

      Of course an octopus would enjoy Whale Wars. Maybe they could also navigate by the stars. That’s compelling.

  • SC Polt

    I just get annoyed when Jammer keeps talking about storytelling while ignoring that nothing happens to push the story forward. Rebels are fleeing the FO at the beginning of the movie, continuing to flee for 2 hours and then are still fleeing them at the end. That’s bad storytelling.

    All of this while ignoring that minutes before the events of this movie they dealt the FO an enormous blow by blowing up Death Star III.

    • Kindofabigdeal

      Maybe Johnson is a hippy who is trying to say war solves nothing. As we can see all of the victories the Rebels and Resistance have had amount to nothing. Hell in TFA we see them hand the FO their asses to them at Maz Kanata’s place.

      • axebox

        Hippies must be right then.

    • Hmm, I would say to me it seemed like a little time had passed. It wasn’t stated how long they waited before sending Rey and Chewie to Luke’s planet in TFA.

      Also…… that’s arguably also what happens in Empire? The chase I mean!

    • Joseph Jammer Medina

      “A lot of things happened in the plot” does not necessarily equal good storytelling. The storytelling is about the dramatic tension, overcoming of insurmountable obstacles, and emotional journeys.

    • Tonk99

      And why does the opening crawl state “the First Order reigns!” …err, didn’t they just have their major asset, Starkiller base, destroyed along with thousands of their personnel? Another example of TLJ taking a dump on TFA.

  • Kindofabigdeal

    This movie reminded me of the last episode of Walking Dead. No matter how many of the bad guys you kill there are still more of them to outnumber the good guys. Maybe they had a secret clone army stashed away.

    • Ryan Johnson

      It’s also like the Walking Dead in that it will never end. It will just go on and on until people stop watching. They just change the status quo every so often between the Empire and the Rebels

  • Ryan Johnson

    Cool fanfic, bro

  • ATLDC

    I loved the movie. Loved the tone and the “Kill the past” theme. I’m fine with the space chase, like every star wars movie there are problems with it if you think about it too much. I didn’t like the Leia Statue of Liberty pose, but was down with her actually using the force to bring herself back in. I’m even fine with Rey’s parentage being a red herring . . . BUT I’m not down with no Snoke explanation. Unlike RotJ we are 7 movies in prior to this one. The audience has been told the rules. If you’re going to change the rules, you can’t just treat the audience like boobs.

    It just feels like JJ gave Johnson a character he didn’t want and he kicked him to the curb.

  • SPOILERS……

    To me I agree that there are ways that the movie could have been improved but this is something that can be applied to nearly everything we do in life. As a musician who writes original music I spend a lot of time mixing my songs and I can tell you that you can only get your art to a point where you will settle. Sure a hundred people will come along and say “I would have put a guitar solo there” or “the bass is too loud” etc. but at some point the I have to say that I’m happy enough with the work to give it to the masses. This means that rarely is that work perfect in my eyes but if I spent forever working and reworking it then it would never be released. (or I’d become a Lucas and keep tweeking things over and over again forever)

    What I am saying is that this movie is the product that the creators settled on as being something they could share. Having millions upon millions of people present their ideas for how the movie could have been better will obviously give the illusion that something perfect could have made but the movie isn’t made by asking those millions, it is made by a select few who must not succumb to the pressure of second guessing themselves or disappointing the masses and the bosses. It is a difficult position and I think this movie did well to set a new tone forward and give us something a bit different and a bit more uncertain.

    In all the other Star Wars movies I always felt that the Rebels would win but after this one it feels like they have been stripped of everything but the bare minimum. They are literally down to one ship and a handful of people much like what we saw in the start of the show Rebels. Odds are higher then they have ever been and now the safety net is gone. There is no Luke to answer questions. Leia won’t be in 9 for long or at all, and they have nothing but what they are wearing and their wits.

    In some ways it felt more like a classic Star Trek movie then Star Wars but in some ways that is good. The ship against ship in deep space parts were very Trek and I liked the idea of going over to the enemy ship to shut things down. I also loved the ramming of the main ship through Snokes, again very Trek. I think the core of the movie was I think the focus should have been on the three rounds of The First Order’s best against the Rebels best.
    Round 1: Poe and bomber vs. Dreadnaught, result was more of a Rebel’s pyrrhic victory then a win.
    Round 2: Main Rebel ships vs. Snokes Ship, result a difficult win for the Rebels.
    Round 3: Everything the Rebels have left vs. First Order Ground Assault, result a pyrrhic victory for the First Order.

    If they could have stuck to the core of those battles and forgot about Canto Blight things could have had a very nice stressful and tense back and forth for the audience like what Spielberg did in Jaws. Dispute some mistakes and bloat I enjoyed the movie and I thought it was well done. I like the fact that it is very different and I can’t wait to see what’s next. Just remember we were lucky to get 6 movies, 2 Ewok specials, The Clone Wars shorts, The Clone Wars Series (Still the best Star Wars produced to this point) and a very horrible Christmas Special out of Lucas. With Disney we are guaranteed to see a lot of Star Wars in the future. I would rather have two dozen different Star Wars shows and movies with a couple “bad” ones then none at all.

    • Rad4Cap

      Like TFA should have done something other than repeating A New Hope, TLJ should have done something other than simply reversing Empire.

      As a musician, I hope you aren’t satisfied with simply putting the notes of someone else’s music in reverse order and claiming it to be a good work of your own.

      As to your last point, they don’t have the luxury of “two dozen different Star Wars shows and movies” to wrap up the Han, Luke, and Leia stories. Those are done now. And done BADLY.

      • No I am not satisfied when the writing of my music is concerned but when it comes to mixing that is a completely different beast for me. Anyone who is an audio engineer will tell you that mixing is the most boring, intense, tedious, thrilling, difficult and rewarding experience of making music. Much like editing is for a film.

        I will however say that no matter what you do with music you only have 12 notes and no matter what you do you are truly just reversing notes and saying its original. The same could be said for stories as well. There are only 7 basic plot that all stories are composed of. Trust me I’ve been trying to figure out an 8th!

        While you and others may feel unhappy with how they handled the wrap up of the three main characters stories that is all that can essentially be done about it. Unfortunately Disney will only notice when it affects their bottom line.

        • Rad4Cap

          ” no matter what you do you are truly just reversing notes and saying its original”

          NOW Scott’s ‘argument’ is that there is NOTHING original. So mindlessly repeating or mindlessly reversing someone else’s story, beat for beat, IS something that he’s perfectly satisfied with – because EVERY work is just mindless repetition.

          That explains much.

          • Wow dude, you have way too much pent up anger about something if you can get worked so much about what I have to say about a movie. I feel sorry for you that you can’t have a conversation without trying to undermine and repudiate people.

            I am only responding to you because I try very hard to treat people how I want to be treated. I even do this for internet trolls! The reason the world is so selfish and horrible is because there will always be people who’s only aim is to tear down, misconstrue, criticize and condemn regardless of the topic or forum. I’d hate to think of how you would treat someone who tried to discuss something important with you. Maybe one day you will learn to respect others opinions. Good luck.

          • Rad4Cap

            Interesting. Scott tries psychologizing instead of reasoning. In other words, he tries to dismiss the *accurate* identification of his OWN argument as just “anger”. That way he can simply ignore it rather than having to use reason.

            So not only is there “NOTHING original” in the world but one doesn’t have to use reason to defend that premise. It must just be accepted and “respected”. LOL

            Again, that explains much.

          • Rad4Cap

            Interesting. Scott tries psychologizing instead of reasoning. In
            other words, he tries to dismiss the *accurate* identification of his
            OWN argument as just “anger”. That way he can simply ignore it rather than having to use reason.

            So not only is there “NOTHING original” in the world but one doesn’t have to use reason to defend that (or any other) premise. Ideas must simply be accepted and “respected”. LOL

            Again, that explains much.

            PS: Amusingly enough, the current “Misquoted all the way” post from Scott to which this is a reply – is NOT what Scott had originally posted (and thus NOT what the above was a response to). Scott spewed out a LONG rambling rant, in which he attacked me (saying I am ‘sorry’, ‘angry’, and a slew of other insults) and declared all ideas deserve to be accepted and respected rather than criticized. Apparently, in once HE had calmed down and stopped projecting, even Scott recognized the utter irrationality of that very LONG rant. So he completely DELETED his insulting ramblings and substituted the short – and false – statement “Misquoted all the way”. (False, because THE quote I provided IS word for word – unless Scott subsequently decides to delete IT and repost something else in its place as well).

            LOL

          • Thanks for saving me time explaining. I was upset when my original post got erased between tabs. I do wish I could post it, it was exactly what I wanted to say. But it is far more amusing letting you prove my point for me. lol.

          • Rad4Cap

            Ah, so Scott supposedly ‘accidentally’ deleted his insults – so did NOT recognize the irrationality of his griefer trolling – and thinks someone pointing out the disappearance proves something.

            Oh, it does. But as the anti-Luke said not ‘the way you think’.

            LOL

          • C. Christopher

            Wow, is this all you do dude? I just finished reading your endless rant on another article and you sound like a broken record. You are always trying to argue anything you can so I’m guessing that everyone here already knows you are an a-hole but do you? I’ll give you a hint, no one likes shallow narcissistic blamers who are always on the defense when someone says anything they disagree with. Since that’s the case I’m sure you’ll love this.

          • Rad4Cap

            A post of ad homs? No actual argument. What a surprise.

            Which posts “on another article” are you smearing as a “rant”? How is it “a broken record”? How do you get “always” from two threads? It is telling that you try to smear defending one’s ideas as being “on the defense”. Apparently you don’t like it when others disagree with you.

            I’m guessing that you are here just to BE an “a-hole” as you put it – ie a griefer troll.

            Thanks for self-identifying. It’s always nice to learn immediately who to block.

            BLOCKED

          • C. Christopher

            Triggered! I’m amazed that was all it took to get rid of him. It doesn’t take much to deflate people like that.

          • C. Christopher

            Don’t waste time “reasoning” with anal fissures. They only hear what they want and the only time they get any sort of recognition is when you try to respond to them so they can mouth off again. I saw him on another article doing the same thing to another guy.

  • Nattown

    What Cam Clark really wanted to say is: Rian fucked up. He fucked up big time and he knows it. This is why he is on the defensive instead of answering questions. JJ threw him a great lob in the air and Rian threw the ball into the stands. The concept of trying to be totally original on part 8 of a film franchise doesn’t make sense to me. Snoke and Mary Sue are my BIGGEST agreements in this article because we would have been totally satisfied as fans with the OBVIOUS answers.

    • I am on the defensive?

      Also if I thought that, I would write it. I’m a Star Wars fan above all other franchises. I just write it the way I see it?

      • Nattown

        By no means am I going against you..sorry if it seems that way. I couldn’t have agreed with your article more. I meant Rian is on the defensive in his answers about the film instead of providing insight.

    • Rad4Cap

      ” The concept of trying to be totally original on part 8 of a film franchise doesn’t make sense to me.”

      TLJ was the FARTHEST thing from original. It followed Empire SLAVISHLY – but instead of mindlessly repeating the actions (like JJ did) it mindlessly reverses the actions of the previous film.

      • Nattown

        That line was about some of the comments applauding the “original” approach to TLJ. I just fully believe you can CONTINUE a story instead of killing a previous one which TLJ is seemingly attempting to do.

        • Rad4Cap

          Thank you for putting “original” in scare quotes. It was anything but.

          As to it trying to kill the previous one, I think Rian would have to care about it first to WANT to try to kill it. He didn’t.

          THAT is the problem with this current ‘trilogy’. It is no such thing. It is not an integrated story being told. It is people being pulled in to randomly choose to make whatever they arbitrarily feel like. There is no overriding vision or goal or story being told. And this is not supposition on my part. Both JJ and Rian have explicitly stated this. JJ said there was no plan for the trilogy. He didn’t know what would come after. He had NO answers for his ‘mystery boxes’. And Rian agreed and proceeded on this basis, not caring what came before nor having any idea of what would come after. Ironically, THAT is what people are praising him for – not giving a damn and just doing his ‘own’ thing (apparently CLUELESS to the fact he was LESS original than even JJ).

  • the50sguystrikesback

    Let it GO people. Let it go. (smh)

  • Moby85

    I agree with Campbell for the most part. I am “one or two” that didn’t like the Battlestar Galactica plot rip from episode “33”. I did like Snoke better in this film and an explanation would have been good. The most obvious one could have been he was Darth Plageious but anything would have helped. I mostly agree with the general point that the Canto Bight plotline could have been discarded to firm up the others.

    • Rad4Cap

      Except it isn’t a plot rip from 33. Like EVERYTHING else in the film, its a plot rip DIRECTLY from Empire. Except Rian took the Empire template and simply REVERSED everything. So the first act is last. The fast chase becomes a slow one. The suave man who betrays them becomes a stutterer. The scoundrel succeeding over the leader becomes the leader teaching the scoundrel to follow orders. The city in the clouds becomes a grounded city. The working city (mining) becomes a resort city (casino). etc etc ad nauseum.

      TLJ is nothing but the Mirror Universe version of Empire (w a touch of Return of the Jedi)

  • Black_Ace

    I loved it, despite its many flaws. One of my biggest issues is that the Resistance’s entire plan to save themselves hinged on finding a code breaker that was going to be in a casino. Really?? What if he wasn’t there for a day or two? What if he decided to go to space-Hawaii instead of space-Monaco that week? They didn’t have time to be waiting around for that dude to show up.

    • Rad4Cap

      Actually that was NOT the Resistance’s plan. That was Poe and Finn’s plan. Leia’s plan was to hide in a hole on a planet and wait to be rescued by the rest of the Galaxy. And when they did, the rest of the Galaxy said ‘No’.

      Why?

      We STILL don’t know, because this new trilogy has done NO world-building at all. It’s all just random shite.

  • Barry Meltfarb

    Holy god, Snoke wasn’t Darth fucking Plagueis, and it wouldn’t have meant anything to the audience if he was. This fan theory was so boring and silly, I’m genuinely happy to see it dispelled. Shit, Palpatine never even said if Plagueis was real, let alone that Plagueis was his master, or that he survived somehow. And that’s setting aside the fact that he’s a prequel character, which places him in the same category as Jar Jar Fucking Binks. Shit, if Snoke had turned out to be Jar Jar, at least the audience would understand the goddamn reference.

    • That’s just an idea, the point was more that it’s difficult for me to understand where this powerful darksider was during the Emperors reign. I was looking for some kind of explanation, not necessarily that one.

  • Katie

    I did want more info on Rey. She didn’t necessarily need to be a Skywalker or the child of Obi Wan but what we got was so vague. She’s the daughter of junkers ok….but thats it? I guess sometimes the most obvious answer is the answer but it does seem kinda lame.

    • Rad4Cap

      Well the real question is WHY it was a question. Why doesn’t she remember them? Why didn’t those she was left with know who they were? These are mysteries which wouldn’t occur in reality – only in BAD writing, ie writing which doesn’t care what came before or what comes after.

      Beyond slavishly repeating Empire but in reverse, I understand why they chose to go with “junkers” as the parents. It is to make the force ‘egalitarian’ rather than limited to bloodline – ie to make it a choice rather than a fate or a destiny.

      Of course, that doesn’t make the setup and intentional refusal to pay off, any less “lame”.

      And THAT is the problem with creating a trilogy in which NO one has an idea of where it is supposed to go. As all have stated, JJ didn’t know where it was going. And Rian doesn’t know where it is going.

      THAT is how we get disappointments like LOST. Lots and lots of hand waving and NO payoff.

  • ProjectBlue

    The people that seem to like this the most are the ones most down with the “kill the past” part of the story. If they were so gun ho on that, maybe billing this as a continuation of the Skywalker saga was the mistake and they should have just picked a different time in that universe to do whatever they think they’re doing with this one. As much as they’ve tried to play fan service, there’s still been dreadfully little Chewie, R2, 3PO. Maybe 2 minutes Han/Leia in 7, 2 minutes Luke/Leia in this.

  • M@rvel

    Calling Rey a Mary Sue is so incredibly moronic I can’t even begin to explain why…. I guess if she is then so is all of your other favorite heroes from your favorite movies… Why is she so powerful?? Because she is. The force works in mysterious ways, and it does what needs to be done to balance the universe. She’s the hero of the story and if you can’t accept that well then you might just be sexist….

    • Triple M

      The Force works in mysterious ways?? That’s it?? That’s your response??
      Seriously?? Then you finish with a sexist jab.

      Personally, the whole Mary Sue thing is distracting… forget her gender completely, she’s still far too powerful for the existing continuity.

    • Well Luke was never shown to be so powerful without training. You have to see it within the confines of that universe. Anakin as a child showed some talent but even then. And Anakin was potentially the most powerful of them all. He even had a virgin birth. So whilst I agree that within a different universe Rey would be equal to many Male roles. In this universe she kind of stands out. So I don’t see what is sexist about that at all. As I said above ‘The Force did it’ is a good enough explanation for Star Wars normally. But it just needed a minute of exposition to cue the audience in. Just my opinion

      • M@rvel

        So I guess you think Luke is a Mary Sue as well then, right?? After all, he showed many skills with the force that we hadn’t seen before and with very minimal training. He trained with a lightsaber for probably 5 minutes under Obi Wan’s guidance, but all he did was block a few blasts from the training drone. But then he was shown as a formidable opponent when up against Vader. How did he learn those skills with a lightsaber?? It’s never explained. How did he learn to communicate with Leia and give her his location at the end of ESB? And that was before he knew they were related. Want me to go on? These are all things that we accepted as part of the story BECAUSE Luke was the hero of the story. And he’s not a Mary Sue?? Your logic is flawed. Just because she’s not a Skywalker she can’t be powerful?? Plus, she practically raised herself. She became proficient with a staff on Jakku, and that translated to her being a natural with a lightsaber. And that’s less believable than Luke doing a bunch of crazy shit without training?? He was a farm boy. When did he ever have to fend for himself when he was living on Tattooine with his family?? What did Rey even do in TLJ that was so unbelievable?? There was one fight scene with her in Snoke’s throne room where she took on a couple NON-FORCE SENSITIVE guards with the help of Kylo…… And that’s too unbelievable for you??…….

        • I refute your claims

          Luke’s Force abilities were far more instinctive and yet unrefined in ANH. He practically did nothing. He was also exposed to the Force and we assume had some practice in between ANH and ESB. ‘But I’ve learned so much?’

          By Empire Luke was being taught intensively by Yoda. He was not at dogobah for a few days. Empire has a fair old time jump between the Falcon leaving the Star Destroyer to arriving at Bespin. Luke was being trained by Yoda and still he was very raw and never really a threat to Vader who was toying with him.

          However Rey in TFA had literally just heard about the Force and was mind controlling guards and then had lightsaber skills to defeat Ben Solo who was trained for years by Luke. In TLJ she doesn’t develop much in the Force actually, but it still doesn’t explain why she was SO strong so quickly in TFA. I don’t care that she is not a Skywalker like some. I liked that she was no one special. All I’m saying is we still needed some kind of explanation why Rey was such a natural at a far more advanced rate than Luke Skywalker?

          Explain that properly and I’ll concede the point. But there’s not enough in the Movies to show a reason for this so far.

          • M@rvel

            Anyone who still complains about Rey beating Kylo in TFA is ignoring CLEAR plot points and explanations as to why she was able to get the upper hand. Kylo had just murdered his father, and that crippled him. Snoke even mentions that in TLJ, did you miss that part? Also, Kylo had just been shot by Chewbacca’s bowcaster, and if you’ll recall he’s used that to blow up like 3 stormtroopers at once…. so yeah, that would hurt. Not to mention it was obvious he wasn’t trying to defeat Rey, he wanted her to join him and snoke.
            And I say this again for the people in the back…. LUKE WAS A FARMER… Rey grew up by herself having to fight for herself. Even before the force awakened in her she was far beyond Luke in terms of skill and athleticism. So using the lightsaber came natural to her.

          • I’ll grant you that Rey would be a more natural combatant and I’ll grant you that Kylo wasn’t exactly himself. I still think the Jedi mind trick from no where and her ability to understand and communicate with anyone made it seem like she was a bit special with the Force.

            Your assertion that Kylo wanted Rey to join him in TFA is unfounded however. My point still stands that to be about the same level as Rey, Luke went through far more training. And I still stand by my point that some explanation from Snoke or Kylo would have been enough and made he film overall more of a follow on to TFA.

            I never wanted her to be a Skywalker/Kenobi anyway. I like that she isn’t anyone with a special heritage, but I’d still like to have seen some explanation.

            It’s ok to disagree

          • M@rvel

            You’re still ignoring dialogue from TFA that explain what you are denying. “You need a teacher! I can show you the ways of the force!” Kylo said that to Rey during their fight, so no, he didn’t want to defeat her. Snoke also told Kylo to bring her to him. In a meeting with Snoke, Kylo also explains to him, “She is strong with the force! Untrained but stronger than she knows.” I feel like that is all the explanation you need to accept her as a powerful force sensitive character. And you’re right, it is totally okay to disagree. But calling her a Mary Sue is such a ridiculous thing to say in my opinion, and honestly, immature, that I have to explain why. She is not a Mary Sue. She is our new hero and that’s all you need to know.

  • Triple M

    Some very good points.

  • Tonk99

    Snoke should have been Plagueis. Its so obvious and it would have tied all three trilogies together. But oh no, apparently Rian knows better.